A Battlefield for Tax Reform - Vanity

vanity | 9/17/06 | Principled

[Your Nightmare]

Probably so. I seem to recall you making a concerted effort to get me banned several threads ago by continually citing supposed "grievances" and "violations".

Nobody need to make an effort to get you banned. You do fine all by yourself.

[pigdog]

Nightie has a loooooonnnnngggg history of trying to distract FairTax threads in any manner possible to get them off-topic. He'll frequently launch into the "how many angels dance on the head of a pin" or similar topic as a diversion.

You'll see him try the same stunt on this thread soon no doubt. He's merely a disruptor troll when he starts this M.O.

[Bigun]

There are no other options. We are going to have taxes. The only choice is deciding the best way to have them.

AMEN!

Are we going to have a tax system worthy of free people or will we continue to endure the communist inspired mess we currently have? THAT is the question.

[Bigun]

Please. The most unpleasant person, by far, on these FairTax threads is pigdog...

Is he really unpleasant or is it just that YOU see him that way because he makes arguments that do not comport with YOUR views and YOU are unable to refute them?

[tpaine]

Those that can't rationally defend their positions often do exactly that. -- They erroneously claim their opposition is making a personal attack, and demand that the mods protect them..
-- 'Funny' tactic, isn't it?

Sure kills "real debate".

And it's up to the Mods to determine if there was really a personal attack.

Yep, - which puts them on the 'spot', and whichever way they decide, it creates more bad feelings and flame wars on FR.

All because some here can't learn to defend their political positions with common sense & rational debate.

[Bigun]

...FairTax plan which is an absolute nonstarter in Washington.

According to whom? Last time I looked the FairTax plan had more support in Washington than all other tax reform measures combined!

[Jacquerie]

Of historical note, 1911-1920 was a horrible decade. The meat grinder of WW I rightfully overshadowed significant changes to our constitution. Still, the populist amendments have and continue to do great harm to our republic.

The 16th legalized an income tax. A later (FDR?) supreme court found that progressivity was constitutional. So much for equal protection, right? It has morphed into a communist fantasy that relieves producers of their hard earned wealth.

The 17th removed state input from federal law making. The upper house of our national legistlature that was designed to be above the rabble of the populist mob has become a copy of the lower house, albeit with six year terms. Rather than cool the temper of representative government, the likes of Kennedy fan the flame of class warfare to the detriment of our country.

The 18th banned alcohol, a bad idea rescinded less than fifteen years later.

The 19th granted women the right to vote. I will defer to men braver than me to point out any downside.

IMO these populist amendments, and later scotus rulings regarding them, set the stage for our current problems. The democrat party as we know it could not exist without the female vote, the graduated income tax or senator's reliance on inner city votes bought with the sweat of producers.

[Principled]

And it's up to the Mods to determine if there was really a personal attack and, if so, warn or ban that person.

Ah... depends on which mod doesn't it?

From the posted vanity...

An anti-reformer may be taking advantage of the positions he he was entrusted with by the site (modertor). By taking sides in threads, berating and belittling pro-nrst posters,...

[Principled]

There is now a concerted effort to get me banned. I am in receipt of some private FReepmails showing it.

[Your Nightmare]

There is now a concerted effort to get me banned. I am in receipt of some private FReepmails showing it.

Ooooo, another conspiracy! Do tell!

You guys are turning into a real tin-foil hat group.

[Principled]

Why does it surprise you that a group of anti reformers get together to concentrate some complaints on a particular pro reformer?

Do you deny it happened with pigdog? It was pretty obvious.

Now rob is sending emails to jimrob asking to get rid of me - even though the mods did not react to his complaint.

It must've not been the one mod in question!

[Bigun]

Excellent post!

Spot on analysis!

[Bigun]

...does it surprise you that a group of anti reformers get together to concentrate some complaints on a particular pro reformer?

It shouldn't surprise anyone as that is what they do when they cannot refute the legitimate arguments being presented.

[tpaine]

You are not alone.

Anyone that uses an uncompromising constitutional position in debate will eventually be accused by their opponents of personal attacks.

[It is impossible to refute unconstitutional positions without causing 'offense']

Those who want to argue/debate constitutional issues cannot claim a 'personal attack' just because their opinions on the issue are being refuted. -- The old heat/kitchen/thick skin homily must apply to these types of debates.

[Principled]

And so they cause such a stir and start flame wars so that:
-the thread is moved
-posters get suspended

It is indeed the goal of some to stifle discussion as such. They want the thread to be hidden. That's why all this started a while ago. Simply an abuse report sent the thread away. ONce they discovered they could control the behavior of the mods like this, they went wild.

[Principled]

The old heat/kitchen/thick skin homily must apply to these types of debates.

I agree. But what's happened is that those who want to stifle the debate have discovered how to control the behavior of the mods wrt hiding threads. Simply hit abuse and irrespective of the circumstances, the thread is moved, locked or deleted.

I don't blame the mods one bit. They were left with little choice.

As I said, it is going to happen in the real world.

[Bigun]

It is indeed the goal of some to stifle discussion as such. They want the thread to be hidden. That's why all this started a while ago. Simply an abuse report sent the thread away. ONce they discovered they could control the behavior of the mods like this, they went wild.

I have pinged Jim Rob to this thread. Let's see what happens as a result.

[Your Nightmare]

Why does it surprise you that a group of anti reformers get together to concentrate some complaints on a particular pro reformer? Do you deny it happened with pigdog? It was pretty obvious.

If there were a lot of complaints about pigdog, I'm sure he earned them. There was no "get together" to concentrate complaints against pigdog that I was involved in. And you give the Admins too little credit. Do you think they ban somebody because the get a lot of complaints?

[Your Nightmare]

And so they cause such a stir and start flame wars so that: -the thread is moved -posters get suspended

Once again y'all ignore the main source of the problems - pigdog. The FairTaxers have no basis to complain as long as they sit quiet at his antics.

[outofsalt]

Support exists and is growing!
Check out this old poll: http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/post?id+1703054%2C29
Once we correct the abuses of the collection of taxes
it will be easier to tackle the other side of the coin, spending!