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Precision Climate Modeling Is Forecast
Terra Daily ^ | 09/08/2006 | Staff Writers

Posted on 09/08/2006 8:11:43 AM PDT by cogitator

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To: wbill
Wonder if this will support the global warming theory.

Projected global warming is about water vapor (CO2 only provides some warming, the bulk is water vapor). But water vapor is distributed very unevenly unlike CO2 which has slow, distributed sources and sinks. Water vapor has very fast sources (evaporation) and sinks (rainfall). To figure out the overall warming, you have to accurately figure out the water vapor at as many points on the earth as possible at a fairly fast rate (e.g. their 15 minutes).

21 posted on 09/08/2006 12:15:37 PM PDT by palmer (Money problems do not come from a lack of money, but from living an excessive, unrealistic lifestyle)
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To: Da Bilge Troll
Can they start one 100 years ago and predict the present accurately? I predict not.

That will never happen because chaos effects can never be modeled adequately any practical possible computer. But the issue is not whether they predict the weather but whether they model it accurately. For example, do the climate models contain tropical waves and storms? Most current models do not, which makes them poor predictors of climate, never mind weather.

22 posted on 09/08/2006 12:18:46 PM PDT by palmer (Money problems do not come from a lack of money, but from living an excessive, unrealistic lifestyle)
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To: metmom
They still probably won't get tomorrow's weather right anyway.

The prediction of tomorrow's weather is not necessary, but the prediction of variation that matches reality is. What is not needed for climate modeling is accurate timing of weather features. What is needed is accurate depiction of weather features and increasing time and space resolution as these people are doing is a step in that direction.

23 posted on 09/08/2006 12:21:28 PM PDT by palmer (Money problems do not come from a lack of money, but from living an excessive, unrealistic lifestyle)
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To: cogitator

Thanks for the ping. Hopefully I clarified things a little. The realclimate weather prediction discussion was very useful, I'll have to post my thoughts there soon.


24 posted on 09/08/2006 12:22:48 PM PDT by palmer (Money problems do not come from a lack of money, but from living an excessive, unrealistic lifestyle)
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To: abbi_normal_2; adam_az; Alamo-Girl; Alas; alfons; alphadog; AMDG&BVMH; amom; AndreaZingg; ...
Rights, farms, environment ping.
Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed
25 posted on 09/08/2006 1:25:34 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: freepatriot32

BTTT


26 posted on 09/08/2006 2:39:23 PM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: wbill


"So.....weathermen can be wrong more frequently"

Either that or wrong with more decimal points.

I have heard that just saying the weather tomorrow will be the same as today is as or more acurate than many production weather models...

Doesn't take as many teraflops to calculate, either


27 posted on 09/08/2006 6:41:59 PM PDT by RFEngineer
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: DaveLoneRanger
Would it imply that they aren't quite there yet?

Yes; I found this interesting because FReeper palmer and I have speculated that in a decade or less, the models will be so much improved, resolution-wise, that the dilemma of uncertainty around global warming will pretty much disappear. This article indicates that the modelers are pushing to get there.

29 posted on 09/11/2006 7:28:12 AM PDT by cogitator
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To: palmer
Can they start one 100 years ago and predict the present accurately? I predict not.

That will never happen because chaos effects can never be modeled adequately any practical possible computer. But the issue is not whether they predict the weather but whether they model it accurately. For example, do the climate models contain tropical waves and storms? Most current models do not, which makes them poor predictors of climate, never mind weather.

Well, my issue is not a weather report, but "Global Warming" -- especially the "evidence" for a human cause. The usual "evidence" for human causation are the results of such modeling. If a model cannot predict the present based on the past, how can it be trusted to predict the future?

30 posted on 09/12/2006 8:11:21 AM PDT by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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To: Da Bilge Troll
If a model cannot predict the present based on the past, how can it be trusted to predict the future?

I'd be careful with that. A model can always be jiggered to predict the present from the past. It's predicting the future (like this year's lack of hurricanes) that proves that climate can be predicted. I haven't seen that happen yet.

31 posted on 09/12/2006 1:37:39 PM PDT by palmer (Money problems do not come from a lack of money, but from living an excessive, unrealistic lifestyle)
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To: palmer
A model can always be jiggered

Of course. But all of that is why I can't believe a word Algore says.

32 posted on 09/13/2006 11:35:14 AM PDT by Da Bilge Troll (Defeatism is not a winning strategy!)
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