New Setback in German-Polish Ties.

In this situation, excuse me, but I don't give a damn that someone in your country is "offended" by K's words.

You see, that's why I suggest ignoring each other. If you don't get offended, then no harm's done. Not a perfect solution, but for the time being I believe that's all there is.
As long as Poland sees Germany as imperialistic and a potential threat, and Germany sees Poland as unreliable and overbearing, there simply is no common ground. For now.
The real problem is not the subject matter, because ironically that is no problem at all. Germany has accepted the Oder-Neisse-line in 1990 as it's eastern border and has officially distanced itself from ALL claims like those of the Preussische Treuhand. From a strictly legal standpoint, the problem is solved. No right of return, no restitution, no compensation, no legal grounds for former expellees. There, from a purely legal standpoint, you - rightfully - got everything you wanted, and the BdV - rightfully - got nothing.
The problem is common mistrust. Poles suspect that Germany has revanchistic tendencies, which - as a whole - it has not. And present-day Germans believe that Poland has ulterior motives when instrumentalizing Germany's past against its citizens.
So, no, I'm not offended by the brothers K's words. As I said before, they're catering towards their own voters and I don't care. Because contrary to what you say, it's not MY problem at all. I'm too young to have fought in WWII. And my those of my grandparents, who were indeed wronged (they were anti-Hitler and ironically still lost all their property in the east), are dead by now.
But then again, I neither believe in collective guilt nor in collective claims or indignation. As a result I personally can't and won't apologize for something outside my powers.

But if you still think it my problem personally, then please explain to me HOW I am responsible PERSONALLY.

"Because contrary to what you say, it's not MY problem at all. I'm too young to have fought in WWII."

OMG, you guys are obsessed with that "individual guilt/collective guilt" stuff. Even retarded vox don't blame modern days Germans for WW2, but German state (then under then name third Reich) is simply historically responsible/guilty for that, no matter how much time will pass. In this case by "It's your (German) problem" I mean that "the union" is German, not Polish, you are making decisions - you may build "Ze Zentrum" or not, Horst and others may appear at the meetings or not, CDU may kick out Erikka or not, our opinion is simply not flexible, in few years we may have a little nicer "face" than potatoes, but in general the message will be the same.

The basic problem with Steinbach might be, as I already said, that she obviously uses her chairwomanship of the expelled as a promotion for her personal career. My own impression is that she is not interested into the matters of the expelled or into the German-Polish relationship since she would use a completely different verbalism then. Steinbach's interview you quoted from is held in a quite agressive attitude. Simply ugly stuff and I understand your outrage. Nevertheless she would be politically quite unimportant if Poland would not give her that much attention. Since Poland is the last country we have such disputes with (the Russians are not really interested and some of them are even talking about selling their part of former eastern Prussia to us - God beware - we do not want it anymore!), every outburst of fury in Warsaw gives her a article in the press. Since most Germans (like all other people) tend to favor their own compatriots to people from abroad we can say that the statements of the Kaczynski brothers (and those of all other emotion-loaded Poles) are the very best propaganda for her we can think of. She should pay them a salary.

Since her organisation represents a important part of German history offical Germany can not ignore it completely. Therefore it would be helpful if we could restrict ourselves to discuss the realities and not the offending BS from exremists like Preussische Treuhand or quite simular groups with maximum demands in Poland (their demands are only the other way around).

To make it short: The general impression in Germany is (tell me if we are wrong) that your current president won his recent election campaign in parts with anti-German sentiments and verbalism. I.e. he declared to demand reparations from Germany which is ridicolous since he has absolutely no means to enforce his claims. Therefore everybody knows that it was only cheap populism. It is the same thing like with Steinbach (only the other way around).

I can not change history and I am deeply ashamed about what happened in WWII. Poles had to pay a much higher price than Germans although they did nothing that gives them any responsibility for the war. Therefore there can be no relativism between Polish and German war-crimes if we look on the "big thing". Talking about individual people and indiviual fate it might be different.

"The basic problem with Steinbach might be, as I already said, that she obviously uses her chairwomanship of the expelled as a promotion for her personal career."

Sorry Andrew, but we don't give a damn about that. Don't you think that then "a nice folkloristic organization" should elect a different leader ?

"Nevertheless she would be politically quite unimportant if Poland would not give her that much attention."

O Yeah. It's all our fault. If Poland didn't "give her that much attention", you would already have "Zentrum" of Germanic victimhood, where your Horst and Angela would invite foreign leaders to put flowers and in 20 years we would have to officially apologize at the official annual day of "lost heimats" and "expulsion education" would belong to the core of "European values".

Don't you think that she would be "politically quite unimportant" If your Horst and others didn't use to meet with her, appear at her "exhibitions" and If your CDU didn't give her a place on their lists to parliamentary elections ? Didn't you think about that Andy ?

"To make it short: The general impression in Germany is..."

To make It a little longer, to general impressions in Germany belong also "Bush=terrorist", "War for oil", "Poles are thieves" and many others, but I don't think that we are very much interested in studies on German sociology.

"he declared to demand reparations from Germany..."

Each of us was explaining that thing about 10 times. If you don't pay attention, you don't have to be active in these threads, even If lizol or twinself ping you to them.

"It is the same thing like with Steinbach (only the other way around)."

Not really.

"Talking about individual people and indiviual fate it might be different."

Oh man. "Talking about individual people and indiviual fate" is a very basic propaganda technic. "Talking about individual people and indiviual fate" you could for example build "Zentrum against Polish war crimes in Iraq".

Do you sell used cars?????

You'd be great at it, as you can describe something showing it completely different, as it actually is.

This is not vulgar in Polish, while f.ck off or piss off is vulgar.

LOL! Then we must announce it to the Poles, as they don't know about it.

Let's say - if a client entered your room, while you'd be busy - would you say "spieprzaj" to him????

I guess that would be the last client you'd have.

That imperative comes from the Polish saying "Get out to the place where pepper is grown!", which means that the man should get out far far away.

This was reeeeeeealy good one!!!

If that's right Vox, could you explain our American friends what "pieprzyc" means in Polish?

But not in the meaning related to relish

Let's say "Jozek moglby pieprzyc Kasie 3 dni bez przerwy"according to you would mean - "Joe could get out with Kate to the place where pepper is grown 3 days in a row, without a break".

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