New Setback in German-Polish Ties.

Take a look a this map:

As you may remember from the history lesson - Poland was the member of the Allied coalition since the beginning of the WW2 (actually it started with the German invasion on Poland).

So - theoretically - having in mind, that Germany lost the war Poland won it.

Unfortunately - somehow it turned out, that as a result of the war the "winner" lost 1/3 of its pre-war territory in the east - due to Big Three decision. "Victorious" Polish population of those lands had to leave their houses, cities, town, villages.

As a compensation - good uncles Joe, Franklin and Winston gave Poland the lands in the west, that you called "the western sliver of what is now Poland was part of Germany".

Polish people, who had to abandon their houses in the east had to find some other place to live. No one asked them whether they wanted to move from Lwow to Breslau (now Wroclaw) or from Wilno to Stettin (now Szczecin).

They were forced to do so, so they were expelled too (maybe should join Frau Steinbach's organisation? - sarcasm)

End of story.

Aha - I'll sign with both my hands your opinion, that "that's not a can of worms we want reopened".

But it's Frau Steinbach and her group, that are trying to do so, not Poland.

You see - for the Poles - Frau Steinbach will never be a partner for any serious talks.

When she complains, that Poland "rejects her hand, that she constantly reaches out for reconciliation" it only rankles the very sensitive issue.

Because who the hell is he to represent anyone in the process of Polish - German reconciliation???

I see reconciliation as more or less something, like Polish bishops stated in 1965, in the letter to the German bishops - "we forgive, and we ask for forgiveness".

BTW - Frau Steinbach is impudent enough to teach Polish politicians, that they should keep that letter more in mind.

And what title has she got to forgive for anything???

This is a fragment of her bio from the Wikipedia:

"Her father, Wilhelm Karl Hermann, from Hanau (in Hesse, western-central Germany), whose family was originally from Silesia,[1] was sent in 1941 to Rumia (at the time named Rahmel) in the Polish corridor annexed by the Third Reich from Poland) and served as a technician with the rank of a Luftwaffe Feldwebel (Non-commissioned officer in the German air force) at the local airfield during the war. Her mother Erika (née Grote) lived in Berlin but visited the town occasionally, giving birth to her daughter there also, close to her husband.

In January 1944 her father was sent to the Eastern Front. In January 1945, at the height of Allied bombings and attacks by the advancing Soviet Army in the area, which triggered a mass exodus from eastern Germany, Steinbach's mother joined the exodus and went to Schleswig-Holstein together with her children.[2] After several years of wandering through parts of Germany, in 1948 the family found refuge in Berlin, where Steinbach's grandfather had become mayor of one of the districts.

To explain it a bit better - Rumia, where she was born - was a Polish town before German invasion in 1939. Her family took a house, from which Polish owners were kicked out. Shortly - they came to Rumia as occupants.

And she's supposed to be considered as an "expelled victim"????????

To make it more funny - during the discussed meeting of her organization she called President Koehler a victim of expulsions too.

Why? Because he was born in 1943 in Skierbieszowie near Zamosc, in occupied Poland. His family was moved there from Besarabia, and they were given a house, from which Polish owners had been kicked off too. In 1944 Koehlers escaped to Germany - to avoid approaching Soviet troops.

Thanks God President Koehler was wise enough not to agree with her, and said, that doesn't consider himself as an expelled one, but as a repatriated, refugee.

And you still wonder, that our blood boils, when we're listening to that ... well ... woman???

"That's one of these disturbing events taking place in Germany these days. In Germany, there is a large structure - supported by the state - which constantly raises the issue of those Polis lands, that used to belong to the Reich. If we, in Poland had a similar structure dealing with our former eastern lands - then we would face very serious accusation on the international stage, and our country wouldn't even be admitted to NATO or EU".

Very well. Looks like except being a f. little potato, he is sometimes right. You don't like It ? So at least there will be something interesting going one, all that story about "one European family" was getting really pathetic.

Very well. Looks like except being a f. little potato, he is sometimes right. You don't like It ? So at least there will be something interesting going one, all that story about "one European family" was getting really pathetic.

1.) If you're looking for "large structures" in Germany, you should check out the "DFB" (Deutscher Fussball-Bund, German Soccer Federation), now that's a relevant entity ;-).

Besides: Mostly identical institutions exist even in the US. Strangely enough noone feels threatened when Irish Americans take over New York City to commemorate their roots even after half a dozen generations or more *LOL.

2.) As I pointed out time and time again: I don't care. I did not vote for or against Prime Minister Kaczynski, so I don't have a right to complain. However, what I pointed out, namely that the accusations against President Koehler are misguided, is correct and undisputable. Prime Minister Kaczynski simple tried to pull a Schroeder on President Koehler. That whole thing had much more to do with Polish national politics than with what President Koehler said. So much like Gerhard...

@ lizol:

They were forced to do so, so they were expelled too (maybe should join Frau Steinbach's organisation? - sarcasm)

Maybe that would be the ideal thing to do ;-). Joking aside: Something like that would indeed help put things in perspective, as few Germans realize that the Poles not only suffered from WWII, but also from their very own expulsion.

The Kaczynskis' theatrics however aren't very helpful.

The fact is at the began of WW2 the Russian and Germany were allies who both invaded Poland in Sept 39 the Nazi and the Soviet split Poland between them, the Russian getting the eastern half

At the end of WW2 the Russian took that same eastern half of historical Polish territory they took in 39 and made it Soviet territory... but the Russian "compensated" the Poles by given them a chunk of historical eastern German territory... the Russian in effect "moved" Poland west and the Russian got to keep that same Polish territory that they took in Sept 39 as Nazi allies

The fact is the Soviet began the war as an Nazi allies and aggressor on Poland and only later because the Germans turned on then the Soviet became western allies... but it is a historical irony that one of the original aggressor in the campaign that started WW2 (I.E. the Sept 39 invasion of Poland) still hold the same Polish territory they took in the 39 invasion

"1.) If you're looking for "large structures" in Germany, you should check out the "DFB" (Deutscher Fussball-Bund, German Soccer Federation), now that's a relevant entity ;-).

Besides: Mostly identical institutions exist even in the US. Strangely enough noone feels threatened when Irish Americans take over New York City to commemorate their roots even after half a dozen generations or more *LOL."

Looks like you don't treat It seriously and that's not a problem for me.

"That whole thing had much more to do with Polish national politics than with what President Koehler said."

Polish opinion about that mess is and has always been negative. Like I already had said once, that's a German "reaction" is changing since f. little potatoes took power, because "nationalistic twins" are a good excuse in this case. It's like with opinion about USA in "old EU". "Stupid Bush" and "war for oil" are just excuses. Europe hadn't been pro-American before Bush.

In my opinion that K's speech, which lizol translated is very good. Good that he brought up that analogy about ex-Polish eastern lands. I was also talking about that on the forum. You find that speech theatric ? You obviously have a right to your opinion.

Koehler's speech was generally OK, but that's like Bush appearing at the Ku Klux Klan meeting and saying to them: "Negros are not second class people, If you like It or not". That's of course not a perfect analogy, but not worse than yours about Irish in NYC.

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