Mel, Poor Mel

The Chronicles Magazine ^ | Thursday, August 03, 2006 | Thomas Fleming

[elhombrelibre]

I think you're still missing my point. Trotsky, Lenin, and other "Jewish" communist may have come from dysfunctional families too. But some people want to bring up the fact that they were Jews when they actually had no real affinity with Judaism any more. Stalin went to a seminary. Hitler was a Catholic at one time. Their religion did not influence them. They no longer were Christians. No one mentions it because it didn't guide their actions. Stalin, Hitler, Trotsky and Lenin were nihilists more than they were Christians or Jews. Yet we get a few, like the author of the posted article, Mr. Phlegm, who want to bring up the faith of Trotsky and Lenin's forefathers and use it to tar neo-Conservatives. I will say this. I'd prefer if the Mr. Phlegms of this world smeared dysfunctional families instead of a whole religious faith by linking them to the communists.

[elhombrelibre]

See that. Stalin was a smoker, but not all smokers are Stalinists. Trotsky was of Jewish heritage, but not people of Jewish heritage are Trotskites.

[Just mythoughts]

Look, the people of Germany are still held responsible to this day for Hitler's evil insanity. The world cannot have it two ways because look what has become of Germany their every act this day is a reflection upon their history.

The guilt association to Germany seems to be a mark forever, how long should they the people born 60 + years after Hitler and his insanity was stopped be considered suspect.

Now history tells that it was the political decisions made at the end of WWI that laid the groundwork, stripping a people bare that opened the door for Hitler's evil reign.

Yet there is not the same kind of accountability demanded and or required for Stalin and his global destruction. Nation after nation after nation has suffered death, destruction and slavery to the mind of communism.

I find that telling and curious that minds of communism readily point to Hitler and totally ignore their own wastelands. So is it really a "Jewish" problem or a global problem.

[gcruse]

"It is hard enough for Baptists to tolerate Lutherans and a bit too much to insist that they become matey with Jews who often despise their religion and their way of life"

Wow. I don't believe I'd be pushing stuff like this. Mel needs help, not fellow travelers.

[drhogan]

i think it's morally wrong to smear any religion or ethnic group for the evil actions of a few of its members.
however, people's ethnic backgrounds, religious training, and the position of their ethnic groups in the overall society probably do play a role in their later political positions. this is probably especially true in the case of those political revolutionaries who come from "out groups". stalin was a Georgian (a group oppressed by russia), for example, and that did effect his thinking. Trotsky's ethnic Jewish (another group oppressed by Russia) background probably played a role in the development of his political beliefs. this is also probably true of Freud, Marx, and the neo-conservative. Likewise, the religious background of IRA members is significant, even if they are not practicing Catholics. Hitler's Austrian background probably played some role in his development, even if it has not been focused on.
On the other hand, any superficial "analysis" that focuses on ethnic/religious factors is likely to unfairly blame the entire group for an individual's sins. this is currently happening a lot with the neo-cons.

[elhombrelibre]

I sure don't give Stalin a pass. He killed more Ukranains than Hitler killed Jews. But for Hitler it was the heart and soul of his ideology. For Stalin, it was genocide for powers sake. [See The Harvest of Sorrow: Soviet Collectivization and the Terror-Famine by Robert Conquest]

I think one difference in the way we think of Stalin's mass murders versus Hitler's is that Stalin killed mostly people of the old Russian empire, almost a self-inflicted wound, as opposed to Hitler's efforts that went searching all places to find Jews who were a non-threat. Hitler put the tactical and strategic needs of his war machine second to killing Jews. [See the book "The War Against the Jews: 1933-1945 by Lucy S. Dawidowicz for an excellent scholarly explanation of this.]

The communists and fascists were always indignant about the others crimes, except when Hitler and Stalin had a pact.

And I don't know of a Jewish problem. I just know that for certain anti-Semites there is a Jewish problem and for Islamists, of course.

[elhombrelibre]

Well said. And I think the author above does smear all Jews for the actions of a Jewish Communists.

[Just mythoughts]

Should not each individual be held to account for their own actions and deeds, rather than group accountability.

Stalin's reach was not limited to "Russia" he was the godfather to N.Korea not as many believe a Chinese communists connection. I have read that the mental Il's father was born in Siberia.

Wasn't it the communists that built the Suez canal?

Personally I cannot fathom what was so seductive about Hitler and his supposed spell binding rants. I do not speak German so can't understand what he was saying, but just to watch him goes against who I fundamentally am. Now is this a learned behavior or an intuition I am born with.

The same manner of speaking/thinking comes forth out of the mouths of our modern day liberal politicians.

Stalin in a lessor degree has the same appearance but he ruled with the iron fist and appears to be far less publicly attractive.

[drhogan]

thanks.

the frequent use of the term "cabal" in referring to neo-cons is another example of this problem.

[Inspectorette]

Have they ever read an interview with Gibson? He cannot frame a three-word sentence that does not sound like it comes from the mouth of Malibu Barbie.

LOL - this could be said about 99% of the Hollyweird crowd.

[veronica]

LOL--maybe you should report him to Variety.

Still beating the paranoia drum I see.

It is stinging, non-PC, and will enrage those who think they hold ironclad franchises.

Nothing you don't see every day in the Jewhating, America-hating leftwing and Arab press.

[sinkspur]

If conservatives must revere a man named Mel, why not buy and read the books of Mel Bradford? Well, he was a wise and learned man, but he weighed 300 pounds and never made a movie with Danny Glover.

He was also a racist. Sheesh. I knew Fleming was a reactionary paleo, but championing Melvin Bradford?

In my next Chronicles column, I give it as my opinion that too many people these days have opinions on too many subjects.

Why does anybody give a damn what Fleming thinks of Melvin Bradford?

[wardaddy]

what ounce on that elbow of flesh are up to now?

[shield]

I thank Mel Gibson for several wonderful movies. Braveheart...The Passion of the Christ....The Patriot....

Hollyweirdo hates Mel 'cause he's succeeded going against the grain of Hollyweirdo...that place it nothing but an anti-America land of the fruits and nuts. THE LAND OF THE LOONS!!!!!

[veronica]

Bradford viewed (Abe) Lincoln as a kind of manic abolitionist....

[sweetliberty]

"What Mel said would be tame compared to the utter hatred and vile screaming that would come from those people."

Excellent and valid point. Personally, whatever people's individual opinions, I think it is shameful how Mel is being attacked on all sides. It says a heck of a lot more about the attackers than it does about Mel.

[Westlander]

Don't forget Mad Max.

[Westlander]

Well stated. Who hasn't done something dumb when they are pickled. The MSM has coverage on this, yet ignores the Seattle shootings by the muzzie.

[Jakarta ex-pat]

Is it only "westerners" that pull their hair out over "Racism?"

I doubt the Hutsis and Tutsis cared.

I doubt the Chinese cared at Nanking.

I have heard far worse talk about a person or a people than Mel's diatrabe.

So what; he hates Jews.

Has he hit or killed any?

Actions speak louder than words.

[veronica]

Big success, big target. Comes with the territory.