[mjolnir]

"the former will be easily raised again and again without people noticing"

How do you figure that?....the fair tax will be one separate, visible line on the receipt...NOT rolled into the costs. A flat tax does not get rid of the IRS and income tax code....this country started with a flat tax and look where we are today. That 60K page tax code sure isn't flat.

People can see the sales tax on their receipts already... But the government is still able to get away with raising it--- that's how Robert Taft (the new one) managed to stay in office. The problem with keeping the tax flat is far smaller from where I stand than permanently eliminating the other taxes, the fair tax calls to be eliminated. Besides, any sales tax rise increases the underground economy. The economic incentives inherent in the Flat Tax, on the other hand, are for all intents and purposes completely positive.

I can't accept the argument that the Flat tax will mutate back into the complex mess it is today. First, this doesn't seem to have happened in Hong Kong or in the East European countries like Poland. Second, it would be easy for voters to notice and understand. Third, that argument if accepted would obviate all flattening measures--- Ronald Reagan would have been told by his base "Simplification! Hah! Your cuts don't even constitute a real flat tax, much less the fair tax we really want! Forget it!"

But that response would have been an absolute disaster for America and the world.

[heckler]

Would it be correct to say that ,in part, your preference of Flat Tax over Fair Tax is a pragmatic one- it would be much easier to flatten the income tax than to do away with the IRS, and do away with the other payroll taxes?

[socialismisinsidious]

"First, this doesn't seem to have happened in Hong Kong or in the East European countries like Poland"

Do they have an IRS and a 60K page tax code that is easily tweaked precisely b/c of its complexity? We do and that is the problem.

People can see the sales tax on their receipts already.

An example of bigger fish to fry...the government has purposely spread out, diluted taxes so the sheople will be less likely to notice. Another part of the reason the government gets away with it now is b/c of entitlements and 43 million people aren't paying any taxes....they are apathetic b/c they don't pay/carry any of the reponsiblilty. Feeling taxes immediately at the register (even if they get a rebate later) will help to wake people up. Make taxes visible and felt by all...take the power away from government.

The problem with keeping the tax flat is far smaller from where I stand than permanently eliminating the other taxes, the fair tax calls to be eliminated.

The Fair Tax is replacement not reform. Won't be easy...the bill(HR 25,S 25) calls for the elimination, of course we would have to demand (while we still have a bit of a voice) and watch with hawk eyes that they don't tweak the bill.

I'm starting to believe if we don't demand some kind of tax replacement now then the scales are going to tip and we will no longer have any voice....we won't be able to stop the slide into socialism.