Posted on 05/14/2006 1:59:13 PM PDT by RobFromGa
You seem to suffer from a serious mental problem known as ignorance. In addition you have a truly nasty habit of misstating what others say whenever it suits your purpose.
First of all, sutff it in your ... ear. I'm not concerned with what Boortz may or may not have said but I'd observe that with you interpreting it the outcome is bound to be questionable at best since you not only continually throw out straw men in such situations but entire straw populations.
I've never claimed that workers would get higher wages, but rather higner takehome pay (greater purchasing power). Nor is calling the prebate "free" anything but a gross misstatement of fact. Each taxpayer pays for some part of the prebate so it cannot be "free" as you throw out for effect.
The situation I showed in #305 is quite reasonable and accurate desipte your nonsense claim of it being "impossible" - that's only "impossible" in your fervid imagination because you support the existing tax system and are terrified of losing it. Got news for you, pal - you're going to lose it and soon.
Neither you nor any of the other Squirrels have managed to blow "the central premise of the book to smithereens", nor even to damage it. Perhaps, Wonder Boy, what you should do is attend the rally and take Boortz on personally as you boasted several times you could do with half your brain tied behind your back (but that would put you with a negative brain capacity I'm afraid). Yep, Robbie, go do that and stop wasting our time with your trashy interpretations. Everone on these threads knows you're an income tax supporter so don't bother with the pretense you're not.
As I've told you many times, you're the one putting forth the out and out lies - not Boortz; but you're welcome to debate him personally at the rally (unless you're too chicken which is probably the case).
Senator Johnny Isakson just went on the bill.
Rep. David Scott (D/GA-13) has changed his website toindicate that he supports the FairTax bill.
Thanks for the info phil_will1.
I hope Johnny is being honest with us.
It does not go to the employee himself and never has - nor has anyone supporting the FairTax claimed that ... only you so far as I know;As usual your own words prove you know nothing. The CBO as well as other government bean counters all attribute the employer portion as employee wage base...SO does the Fairtax (HR25). In fact, though true to your schizo form you'll deny the facts, the Fairtax law specifically "determines" the sales tax rate to tax consumers the equivalent of 15.3% of the "wage base" that includes the employer half.
SECT. 904 Trust Fund Revenue (do you know what that means?)
`(d) Old-Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance Rate- The old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate shall be determined by the Social Security Administration. The old-age, survivors and disability insurance rate shall be that sales tax rate which is necessary to raise the same amount of revenue that would have been raised by imposing a 12.4 percent tax on the Social Security wage base (including self-employment income) as determined in accordance with chapter 21 of the Internal Revenue Code most recently in effect prior to the enactment of this Act. The rate shall be determined using actuarially sound methodology and announced at least 6 months prior to the beginning of the Calendar year for which it applies.`(e) Hospital Insurance Rate- The hospital insurance rate shall be determined by the Social Security Administration. The hospital insurance rate shall be that sales tax rate which is necessary to raise the same amount of revenue that would have been raised by imposing a 2.9 percent tax on the Medicare wage base (including self-employment income) as determined in accordance with chapter 21 of the Internal Revenue Code most recently in effect prior to the enactment of this Act. The rate shall be determined using actuarially sound methodology and announced at least 6 months prior to the beginning of the calendar year for which it applies.
So the Fairtax "supporters" say the 100% paycheck includes only half of the payroll tax, yet the Fairtax "supporters" found it necessary to tax the consumer the equivalent of both halves...That, like the tax on government wages, salaries and benefits, is yet another Fairtax hidden tax increase.
nor has anyone supporting the FairTax claimed thatGo here where the Fairtax authors Dan R. Mastromarco and David R. Burton say: (Maybe they no longer support the Fairtax)
[23] "....Since the median family income of a married couple in 1995 was $47,129 according to the Bureau of the Census, Current Population Reports (April 1997), let's further assume that that is the amount our couple earns.Schizo fool.-----
[26] If the $47,129 of our family's income was all wage income, then that couple would have paid $3,605 in employee payroll taxes on those wages. Note also that their wages were also about $3,605 lower because of the employer payroll tax. As noted earlier, economists generally believe that the employer share of the payroll tax is borne by the employee in the form of lower wages.
----
[28] Under the AFT Fair Tax plan, their disposable income will increase to $50,734 because of the repeal of all payroll and income taxes. .....
the first part of the post dealing with the entitlement trust fund (SS/MC) revenue has nothing to do with the claim you're making since those funds will be paid from the FairTax revenues just as they are at present from payroll taxes.
In the lower portion of your paste with the numbered paragraphs, you can't even get the paragraph numbers straight, let alone post meaningful information from paragraph number "[23}" (no such quote in that paragraph) which is incorrect (besides which it has nothing to do with the information that follows).
In paragraph "[26]" the author is pointing out a common prevailing opinion among economists at that time about the ER portion as he said earlier in:
"[17} ...In fact, a middle-class taxpayer in the 28 percent tax bracket and earning wages must earn $154,400 to buy that $100,000 house (making the favorable assumption that the employer share of the payroll tax is actually paid by the employer, although most economists think employees actually bear its burden), much more than under the 23 percent AFT sales tax."
In "[28]", then he goes on to show what including the ER portion going to the taxpayer would do to help the taxpayer - and it would, but only if that happens since it is still not certain what will occur with the ER portion nor is the author stating his opinion of what will happen with it. He's merely saying that IF it happens that way it will help the taxpayer and that's what the data he gives shows.
You can't even understand what is being said but prefer to misinterpret it to suit your own POV. You should note, Looey, that IF the ER portion goes to the worker, then his takehome is even greater than has generally been discussed on these threads lately - even by you. In fact, this entire paper you quote from is over a decade old and there has been a lot of economic water (and theory and discussion) under the bridge since then.
Perhaps you could find something more current? Using 10+ year old stuff sounds like a desperation tactic.
That's the deal breaker for me, and why I would never support FT. I'm not buying the "Amend the Constitution again to prevent reinstatement of the income tax" argument. Just because a thing is explicitly prohibited by the Constitution doesn't mean Congress won't pass it, the President won't sign it, and the Supremes won't let it stand.
For reference, see "Campaign Finance Reform."
It shouldn't be a "deal breaker" at all since if Congress were going to lay both types of taxes on us at once they would have certainly already done so in the almost 100 years we've suffered under the income tax.
Truth is, the American voter wouldn't stand for both at once. regardless of that, though, the FairTax bill actually ELIMINATES not only the income tax (along with several others) and the pertinent parts of the taax code, but it defunds the IRS asd sets a date certain for any remaining work to be done and defunds the IRS to boot. It also requires the destruction of income tax records and calls for the elimination of the 16th amendment.
Wit all of that, there is no way any politician will be able to snap his fingers and put another income tax in place (Charley Rangel has tried recently and failed and we don't even have the FairTax in place yet - which gives us some protection from that).
The best assurance of never having an income tax in our lifetimes is for the american people to hee the benefits - financially and otherwise of having a tax system like the FairTax).
I simply don't trust them. We should not be giving them new ideas on how to tax us.
They badly need a "new idea" that is workable and of which most will approve and benefit from (and the economy, too).
The existing tax system will certainly not continue as it's on its last lega and surely you don't trust Congress to "fix" that satisfactorily by more tinkering as has gone on for almost 100 years now.
Join with us is putting a tax law in place that will offer us some protection against having both at the same time while amending the Constitution. Help pass the Fairtax.
I'll stay tuned.
Please do moree than just "stay tuned".
You should read HR25 and satisfy yourself that it does indeed eliminate the income and payroll tax (and some others), the appropriate parts of the tax code, gets rid of the IRS (and defunds it, too) and requires the income tax records be destroyed. It also calls for the repeal of the 16th amendment (it can do no more since it is a tax and not an amendment bill).
There is also a separate bill before Congress to repeal the 16th.
We're talking about a change in taxing policy that can create a huge trauma to the economic order, screwed up as it is. I prefer to watch, thanks.
The trauma is all to the upside as the ecomony would bood and most taxpayers would prosper.
You really should read up on it by the bill, the book, or the website.
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