Congress May Expand Border Fences

AP on Yahoo ^ | 5/11/06 | Jacques Billeaud - ap

[NormsRevenge]

DOUGLAS, Ariz. - Much of this dusty city along the border is separated from Mexico by a fence consisting of 12-foot vertical metal bars, spaced inches apart to prevent illegal immigrants from squeezing through.

Surveillance cameras are mounted on towers nearby, and Border Patrol agents posted hundreds of feet away in the desert scrub and flowering ocotillo watch for anyone who might try to scale, cut through, slip under or sneak around the fence.

Though these fences are criticized for shifting would-be border-crossers to more dangerous and remote spots, they do make it harder for illegal immigrants to reach urban areas where they can slip into a car and head for the nation's interior to find work.

Now, as Washington seeks to overhaul America's broken immigration policies, Congress is considering putting many more such barriers along the 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border, which already has 83 miles of fences.

A bill that cleared the House in December would put fences at immigrant- and drug-smuggling corridors in all four southern border states. At an estimated cost of $2.5 billion, the fences would cover 850 miles of border — roughly one-fifth the length of the Great Wall of China — though it would not be one continuous wall.

The gaps would be policed the way many remote areas of the border are already guarded now: with motion sensors, cameras, unmanned drone aircraft and Border Patrol agents.

Among other things, House legislation calls for a mostly continuous 392-mile fence from Calexico, Calif., to Douglas. The second-largest piece would be a largely uninterrupted 305-mile segment in the Texas brush country from Laredo to Brownsville, a corridor used by cocaine smugglers.

Immigrant rights groups say fences waste taxpayer money because would-be border-crossers who are desperate to earn a better living in America will always find a way around or through barriers, as evidenced by the lower sections of the fence in Douglas, where rods have had to be welded into place to patch up breaches.

Even some proponents say erecting fences, without using other border enforcement efforts, will not stop illegal immigrants.

"All by itself, it's not a magic solution," said Ira Mehlman, spokesman for the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which favors limiting immigration.

But the Border Patrol says fences slow down immigrants so authorities can have enough time to respond to those who try to come across. That, in turn, frees up other agents to focus on remote areas, where they already use aircraft and ground sensors.

"Fencing by itself is not effective, but not having a fence is not effective either," added Sen. Jon Kyl (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz.

Advocates for beefing up border security said a 14-mile fence near San Diego, once the country's most prolific smuggling center, shows that barriers work. The fence there is made of corrugated metal sheets previously used as landing surfaces for military aircraft. Behind it is a second fence, made of tightly woven mesh.

Within that area, the barrier is credited with dramatically reducing the flow of illegal immigrants.

Rep. Duncan Hunter (news, bio, voting record), a California Republican who is the leading voice in Congress for more fences, said the costs of building fences are much lower than the government expenses associated with illegal immigration, including huge sums spent on incarcerating immigrants convicted of crimes in the United States.

Opponents say there are some costly consequences as well. Immigrant rights advocates say fences prompt migrants to cross in remote areas where they face dangerous obstacles, such as rivers where some drown, deserts where some succumb to the heat, and mountains where some are injured or die.

Also, a large-scale fence could force immigrants to remain in the country longer, while in the past they came to earn money and then returned home, said Angela Kelley, deputy director of the pro-immigrant National Immigration Forum.

"If it's riskier and harder, people don't leave," said Kelley, who believes a guest worker program will reduce illegal crossings.

In Douglas, Louis Hahn, a retiree who tends horses on his ranch, said the fence reduces traffic through the city. But he said it is simplistic to think that a huge physical barrier will trump the economic forces that prompt fathers to leave their families and risk their lives for a chance at a better life.

"You have got to put yourself in the position of the man crossing the border and what he's willing to take," Hahn said.

___

On the Net:

Customs and Border Protection: http://www.cbp.gov

Sen. Jon Kyl: http://kyl.senate.gov

Rep. Duncan Hunter: http://www.house.gov/hunter

National Immigration Forum: http://www.immigrationforum.org

Federation for American Immigration Reform: http://www.fairus.org

[PreviouslyA-Lurker]

A 20 ft long ditch, filled with water and containing pirhanas with freeaking laser beams on their heads.

LOL!

[Labyrinthos]

I think if were going to build it we should do it right. Build a 25' foot high concrete wall that people can't climb over. It would be more expensive, but it would be more effective and last longer.

This is so simple that Congress is bound to screw it up: 2000 mile fence across the entire southern border -- not part -- but ALL; minimum 12' tall heavy guage galvanized steel mesh fence with 4 to 5 rows of razor wire along the top spreading out in a "Y" formation in both directions; a 20' buffer stuffed with razor wire; another fence just like the first topped with survelance cameras and perhaps even guard towers at strategic locations. Might cost $20 Billion, but worth every penny.

[taxcontrol]

Alternate plan:

850 miles, guarded by military sniper units placed every mile, times 3 8hr weekday shifts plus 2 week end shifts, means 4,250 teams. Times 2 people each times $50,000 / year to deploy, times 2 years = $850 Million.

After the first two years, you can reduce the number of teams because people will be too afraid to attempt a crossing, would give you a $1.5 Billion for a 5 year plan.

Just a thought,

[NormsRevenge]

Here's a small bar 12 footer..

A border patrol agent patrols the international border between the U.S. and Mexico (Mexico to the left of frame) Thursday, April 27, 2006 in Douglas, Ariz. Much of this dusty city along the border is separated from Mexico by a fence consisting of 12-foot vertical metal bars, spaced inches apart to prevent illegal immigrants from squeezing through. (AP Photo/Matt York)

---

A border patrol agent rides along the iron fences that separates Douglas, Arizona and Aguq Prieta, Mexico along the international border Tuesday, May 9, 2006, in Douglas, Ariz. Congress is considering putting fencing of various sorts along the 850 miles of border that runs through four states at a cost of $2.5 billion. (AP Photo/Matt York)

[wmfights]

"so you're a mine man, eh?"
_________________________________

Mine's are easy to find and stop with listening devices and if your going to have a sheer concrete wall 25' or so than it will have to go down 10' or so.

[mlc9852]

They will just dig tunnels, as they are already doing. Or go by boat to Florida. A wall may stop some, but it isn't the final answer.

[Osage Orange]

Razor wire can be pushed aside, dug under, or even cut.

True, but I said it would be cheaper.

Besides...a concrete wall can be tunneled under, broken, and climbed too.

Point being....anything can be breached. What's going to be the most economical and effective? I am not sure. Although IMO, a concrete wall is cost prohibitive.

But what do I know?

[NormsRevenge]

They found this one.. and are out there looking for more.

A 2,400-foot (732 meters) tunnel dug under the US-Mexico border in San Diego is seen in a January 25, 2006 handout photo. Little known outside police circles, the Tunnel Task Force came to light with the January 24 discovery of the passageway that was used to haul tons of marijuana almost half-a-mile (800 meters) from Mexico. (Department of Homeland Security/Handout/Reuters)

Crack US unit duels with Mexico drug tunnelers Reuters

[wmfights]

"They will just dig tunnels, as they are already doing. Or go by boat to Florida. A wall may stop some, but it isn't the final answer."
________________________________________

A wall would reduce the flow dramatically.

[John O]

Opponents say there are some costly consequences as well. Immigrant rights advocates say fences prompt migrants to cross in remote areas where they face dangerous obstacles, such as rivers where some drown, deserts where some succumb to the heat, and mountains where some are injured or die.

They say that like it's a bad thing. I always figured soemone dying in the course of committing a crome was a good thing

[TChris]

...while in the past they came to earn money and then returned home, said Angela Kelley...

I think that's a myth.

[ElPatriota]

:) Exactly right!... isn't that what a fairly logical person would do? They did in New Orleans too! YES, you fix the leak, levee FIRST!!...FIRST!!...FIRST!!...GET IT? Before bailing the water out!...why is this so difficult to grasp? :)

[Drammach]

They will just dig tunnels, as they are already doing. Or go by boat to Florida. A wall may stop some, but it isn't the final answer.

There is no final answer... and that sounds too much like a WW2 phrase, "the final solution" ..

Nothing will be 100% effective in stopping illegal immigration..
Anyone that expects one answer to the problem is smoking ditch weed..

A properly built and maintained wall or fence will simply reduce the illegal traffic.. It will not eliminate it..
It will have to be backed up by surveillance, security cameras, increased border patrol, and probably things we haven't even thought of yet..
Like ground penetrating radar scans to look for those tunnels you mentioned..

Securing the borders is more than just a fence, but a fence is a good part of securing the borders..
That means both borders.. but Mexico first

[ElPatriota]

There is no final answer... and that sounds too much like a WW2 phrase, "the final solution" .. Nothing will be 100% effective in stopping illegal immigration.. Anyone that expects one answer to the problem is smoking ditch weed.. A properly built and maintained wall or fence will simply reduce the illegal traffic.. It will not eliminate it.. It will have to be backed up by surveillance, security cameras, increased border patrol, and probably things we haven't even thought of yet.. Like ground penetrating radar scans to look for those tunnels you mentioned.. Securing the borders is more than just a fence, but a fence is a good part of securing the borders.. That means both borders.. but Mexico first

TOO MUCH COMMON SENSE!... You are right on the money... and the reason is... that you are - again - absolutely right!... not one thing is the solution.. but MANY, and as you so wisely say: in ways we haven't' thought of it yet...

Why is this so difficult to grasp?... and I would add, a "physical border:" again like you say: is a composite of a wall or fence, or both where needed +_ electronics, surveillance by car, air, horses, MINUTE MEN, and of course, laws against the companies who hire them.... etc etc etc... it's a whole NETWORK of measures that will - if nothing else - control the flow...

[GarySpFc]

Here is what we need, but the senate is determined to give us a special fence no one can see.

src="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/israel/fence4.jpg">

>

[ErieGeno]

Fences will deter the illegals from going back home more than it will deter new illegals from coming here.

[tumblindice]

Yes, they plan an "invisible fence".
The hard part will be getting the Mexicans to wear those collars . . .

[MaineVoter2002]

TELL THEM NO AMNESTY!

Send a free fax quickly and easily through...

http://www.numbersusa.com/fax

Complete Contact List Of Senators and Rep. here at this link...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1602588/posts

[stopem]

Deter them from going home?
We should be so lucky.

America is their pinata and there is no way they are leaving.

Message to illegals:
Shame on you people giving up your mexican citizenship and heritage and families SHAME!! You must be very ashamed to be a mexican national to give it all up and break into another country.And give up your citizenship for a few bucks. SHAME on you!!

[Plutarch]

Immigrant rights groups say fences waste taxpayer money...

A border fence serves the same purpose as what Thomas Paine described for military panics in The Crisis .

...they have the same effect on secret traitors, which an imaginary apparition would have upon a private murderer. They sift out the hidden thoughts of man, and hold them up in public to the world. Many a disguised Tory has lately shown his head...

There are many who secretly want the invasion of Mexicans into the U.S., but few that will admit it. The border fence issue serves to unmask these secret traitors. A border fence would be singularly effective in hindering the the flow of invaders, and proportionate to its effectiveness do the open border advocates oppose it.

The secret traitors raise myriad spurious and contradictory objections. Those otherwise favoring profligate Government spending become inexplicably protective of the taxpayer. They use fences for their own property, expect them to be used at Government installations, abut claim fences are somehow useless on the border. The list goes on.

Depend on it: Those opposing a border fence secretly want the invasion to continue.