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To: fortheDeclaration
"How is that call up of troops illegal when the Constitution has the right to suppress an armed rebellion."

Rebellion is defined as a war to usurp the government and establish something different. The South wanted to break away from the Union, which under the 9th and 10th Amendments it had the RIGHT to do. No rebellion there Bubba Gump. Lincoln was supposed to get the authority from Congress for declaring war, and THAT HE DID NOT DO! Its called enumerated powers!

"Second, Robert E. Lee, did not believe the States did have a right to secession."

Once again the Founding Fathers disagree with you, Read up on the Virginia articles of ratification pertaining to the Constitution, Virginia by the way was Robert E. Lee's home state. You seem to think that when the States ratified the Constitution they gave up their sovereignty/power and were amassed into this national entity called America. Wrong again, they only ceeded certain distinct enumerated limited powers to the Federal Government. They never gave up sovereignty and the major portion of power was to remain the domain of the States, once again the 9th and 10th Amendments show you're wrong.

" No, the bottom line is that the war was fought over slavery."

The North went to war to "preserve the Union". So what does that have to do with freeing slaves? Lincoln himself said "If I could preserve the Union without freeing a single slave, I would do it..." Lincoln was a centralist, he wanted to centralise all power in the Federal Government. The seceeding States wanted no government interference in their internal affairs. Slavery was considered a domestic institution (internal affair) and therefore the government had no right to stick its nose into it at that time. Not to mention the admission of the territories to the union as free states. Therefore the South felt the balance of power in Congress would shift to the North. And the North didn't want the Southern States to enact free trade as it was believed that this would hurt the protective tariffs that the Northern economy was prospering under at the expense of the Southern States. So your assertion that it was about slavery is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off base. Slavery was only a side bar issue, and once the war was going badly in public opinion for the Federal Government, Lincoln being a consummate politician enacted the Emancipation Proclamation as a way of getting more popularity for his views. So now what? You still believe it was about only slavery? Virginia and Arkansas, and Missouri didn't seceed until Lincoln ordered the invasion of the original seceeding States. Slavery was NOT, REPEAT NOT why they seceeded, it was about federal interference in each case!

106 posted on 05/02/2006 6:05:23 PM PDT by Colt .45 (Navy Veteran - Thermo-Nuclear Landscapers Inc. "Need a change of scenery? We deliver!")
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To: Colt .45
"How is that call up of troops illegal when the Constitution has the right to suppress an armed rebellion." Rebellion is defined as a war to usurp the government and establish something different. The South wanted to break away from the Union, which under the 9th and 10th Amendments it had the RIGHT to do. No rebellion there Bubba Gump. Lincoln was supposed to get the authority from Congress for declaring war, and THAT HE DID NOT DO! Its called enumerated powers!

First, those amendments give no one the right to disband the Union.

Second, the question of who had a right to call out troops was a debated one.

The returning Republican Congress supported what the President did.

Ofcourse, traitors always want to use the law against those who are trying to uphold it.

"Second, Robert E. Lee, did not believe the States did have a right to secession." Once again the Founding Fathers disagree with you, Read up on the Virginia articles of ratification pertaining to the Constitution, Virginia by the way was Robert E. Lee's home state. You seem to think that when the States ratified the Constitution they gave up their sovereignty/power and were amassed into this national entity called America. Wrong again, they only ceeded certain distinct enumerated limited powers to the Federal Government. They never gave up sovereignty and the major portion of power was to remain the domain of the States, once again the 9th and 10th Amendments show you're wrong.

Well, along with Robert E. Lee, Andrew Jackson disagreed with that view.

As for the Founding Fathers Madison did not accept the idea that a State could leave the Union.

Nor, did most of the Founders.

Do not confuse the right of revolution (stated in the Declaration of Independence) with the right of secession.

The Constitution was made to make the Union between the States stronger, not weaker then the Articles of Confederation. The states were never sovereign nations (with the exception of Texas, which gave up that sovereignty when she entered into the union).

Secession was never considered a right.

Once again the 9th and 10 Amendments do not give any State the right to break up the Union.

" No, the bottom line is that the war was fought over slavery." The North went to war to "preserve the Union". So what does that have to do with freeing slaves? Lincoln himself said "If I could preserve the Union without freeing a single slave, I would do it..." Lincoln was a centralist, he wanted to centralise all power in the Federal Government. The seceeding States wanted no government interference in their internal affairs. Slavery was considered a domestic institution (internal affair) and therefore the government had no right to stick its nose into it at that time. Not to mention the admission of the territories to the union as free states. Therefore the South felt the balance of power in Congress would shift to the North. And the North didn't want the Southern States to enact free trade as it was believed that this would hurt the protective tariffs that the Northern economy was prospering under at the expense of the Southern States. So your assertion that it was about slavery is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off base. Slavery was only a side bar issue, and once the war was going badly in public opinion for the Federal Government, Lincoln being a consummate politician enacted the Emancipation Proclamation as a way of getting more popularity for his views. So now what? You still believe it was about only slavery? Virginia and Arkansas, and Missouri didn't seceed until Lincoln ordered the invasion of the original seceeding States. Slavery was NOT, REPEAT NOT why they seceeded, it was about federal interference in each case!

The Southern Confederacy attempted to secede over slavery.

Read the Cornerstone speech by the Confederate Vice President, Andrew Stephens, http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/corner.html

Lincoln promised not to interfere with any 'domestic institution' protected by the Constitution.

Yet that was not enough for the pro-slaver's, who wanted slavery to expand into the new terrorities.

They even busted up the Democratic Party over it, refusing to endorse the nomination of Stephen Douglas because he would not support unconditional slave expansion.

Now the fact is, that the Confederacy represented the expansion of slavery and should have been crushed.

And it's former flag should be rejected by any American who loves freedom.

107 posted on 05/05/2006 3:58:25 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration (Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth? (Gal.4:16))
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