Audio of Terri's medical history
Terri on the road to recovery before the second stage began.
Posted on 04/10/2006 9:51:17 AM PDT by KevinNuPac
What if it had been your child to suffer as Terri Schiavo did?
Kevin Fobbs
April 10, 2006
Should America just simply move on if it was your child who suddenly was incapacitated and went through Terri Schiavo's experience? It is an interesting question, because there are those in the media and even probably in your office, your neighborhood or even your family who have said well just let the "poor woman" rest.
Well I don't think America can do that because it could have been said about any innocent person who was taken to a crucifixion, or lynched from a tree or an innocent young child who was taken from her home and murdered — as in the case of 9-year old Jessica Lunsford, the Florida child who was abducted, raped and murdered. If the American public had grown tired of the news and just simply moved on, then the citizens in at least 18 states would not have actively advocated passage of a "Jessica's Law" to protect other children.
When the public alarm is allowed by the media to die down or refocus, are we to forget that in each instance an innocent person was harmed or murdered? Should America be looking for closure or looking for justice? All the families that will never have to know the anguish that Jessica's family suffered through would certainly say America must always continue to seek justice.
Has life really become so cheap in America that we would rather just be tired of confronting the truth about what happens to the innocent who are taken before their time? There are some who claim that the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution are inappropriate places to establish a right to hydration or nutrition — in other words food or water.
There are others who claim that the Constitution is a "living document" and therefore should accommodate new rights, chief among those the right to life and therefore once born the right to live. In each case they are human lives; Americans, examples of our own family members that have been taken from their families literally ripped from their loved one's arms and silenced for eternity.
I have spoken to varying religious leaders and followers of the Christian, Jewish and Muslim faiths and in each instance I have found the embodiment of a rich tradition for respect for life and the essence of preserving it. So as we travel through the holy days for the Judeo-Christian faiths, what must we be thinking as we sit in a church pew or in a synagogue of our own commitment to a Culture of Life?"
Do we ask why didn't the first Christians just simply move on? What about the Holocaust and the millions of victims then? Are those of the Jewish faith who say, "we must always remember" misguided? Should they instead be saying, "It happened...Let's just have closure." The answer is obvious, no...and no again. Life and the culture which embodies it are precious and cannot be offered away as yesterday's news.
True, Terri Schiavo is no longer with us. But we must not relegate her to yesterday's headlines or worse forget that she even existed and the highly tragic nature of her death. A key question is should we be governed by the mainstream media and the apparent pursuit to narrow the focus of a "Terri's Day" to three or four days of last year's discussion on the Schindlers vs. Michael Schiavo? Is that truly the essence of what we should be contemplating as Passover and Easter approach in our celebration of our traditions?
In America there are a lot of solid, good, well-intentioned people and families of faith who never truly heard the truth about how Terri lived and the reality of how she died. What they do know and do fully understand is that there was a great deal of controversy about what Terri, a devout Catholic, wanted and whether a loving family — a mother and father, a sister and brother — who were willing with all of their heart and spirit to take Terri into their loving embrace, keep her secure and safe, and love her smiles, her glances, her life because she was not dying, was not terminal, was not at the end of her life and was not a burden.
A couple weeks ago I had an opportunity to speak in Washington D.C. at the Terri Schindler Schiavo Foundation's national launch press conference on behalf of NuPac and those Americans who join with the Schindlers in wanting desperately to move past any hate, division or anguish that conflicted millions of Americans. What I felt in hugging family members was a deep respect and a new partnership in sharing a life mission and a ministry of life with them. Their family spirit and that of the foundation they have launched to help others who are in Terri's or similar positions, who cannot speak for themselves, is a commitment that is based on having compassion for Americans who are still going through what the Schindler family experienced for nearly 15 years.
What I felt is that America cannot and must not put to rest so easily the loss of innocent life because life is not to be tossed aside so cheaply. The forward-looking new launch of the Schindler's Foundation is to give all of us the opportunity through "living wills" (that they and National Right To Life call "will to live") or powers of attorney or whatever the legal instrument is used in each state that provides clarity of each American's intention on what their end of life should be and what medical means should be undertaken.
I have to go back to the U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence because if it is not stated as a basic right for every American to know with clarity that the final destination of their life travel is protected, then our life is expendable. We should not feel as if our life could be interrupted through familial disputes, misunderstandings, cover-ups, etc and is truly determined by whomever either shouts the loudest, has the deepest financial pockets, or is able to get to the courtroom first and finally by the luck of the draw either a life is preserved or ends prematurely.
Fortunately there are at least eight states including where legislators like Representative John Stahl of Michigan, have introduced legislation to prevent termination of hydration and nutrition when there is a familial dispute concerning ending a family member's life when intention has not been specified in writing.
Fortunately there are other states, which, like Michigan, are adopting resolutions to declare an official Terri's Day of Remembrance and Celebration of the Culture of Life because they refuse to give in to a belief that Terri's death was only yesterday's news or that America has grown tired of the issue.
America has not grown tired. It has grown stronger because millions of Americans can finally bring clarity and certainty to their family's decisions. The Schindler family has not grown tired. They have grown more resolute because Terri's legacy is not enveloped in hateful brickbats being tossed back and forth but rather has become a legacy of insuring that the tens of thousands of families who may be facing the Schindler's former or similar medical dilemma are not left alone, shut out, isolated and forced into making life-ending decisions that reflect medical expediency not moral integrity.
In the end we have to ask ourselves would we walk or pledge to support Terri Schiavo's legacy and Terri's Day in a national, or state, or city or neighborhood remembrance? I would hope that the answer would be yes because to do so would allow us to never have to walk even one foot in the Schindler's shoes. The price they have had to pay is too high. Visit: www.Terrisfight.org at the Terri's Day link. Join them in your state so that if something should ever happen to your wife, child, husband or loved one, America will be better prepared to not budge on defending the Culture of Life, and so will your family.
Also show your support today. Sign The Terri's Day Pledge at: http://www.kevinfobbs.com/terri/. Join the fight to insure the nation's Culture of Life.
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Kevin Fobbs is President of National Urban Policy Action Council (NuPac), a non-partisan civic and citizen-action organization that focuses on taking the politics out of policy to secure urban America's future one neighborhood, one city, and one person at a time. View NuPac on the web at www.nupac.info. Kevin Fobbs is a regular contributing columnist for the Detroit News. He is also the daily host of The Kevin Fobbs Show. Write him at kevin@kevinfobbs.com or kfobbs@ix.netcom.com.
© Copyright 2006 by Kevin Fobbs http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/fobbs/060410
But . . . . but . . . . but . . . Michael and his loony lawyer and murdering judge assured us that Terri died a "peaceful" death that was "beautiful"!
Does this mean that it wasn't!!??
Gooooo - ahhh - oooooooooooo - LY!!!
I, for one, will never forget.
Answer: I'd be in jail right now.
The lesson to learn from the Schiavo mess is to have a durable medical power of attorney in place. Those who still don't have one after the events of last year, have learned nothing.
The lesson to learn from the Schiavo mess is to have a durable medical power of attorney in place. Those who still don't have one after the events of last year, have learned nothing.
Agreed.
If (God forbid) my child is ever in a PVS, I hope that he'll have made his wishes known in the form of a PoA. If he hasn't, we'll have to trust that his guardian makes the choices Junior would have wanted made, no matter what I personally think of those choices.
"What if it happened to you?" insults my intelligence. Suddenly I see the issue so much more clearly? Bah!
I remember having this discussion with my husband and father last year during this melodrama. Since I do have that legal document in place, and it designates my husband as the decision-maker, my father agreed that he is the one who will decide, even if my father might be unhappy with the decision.
You know, we shouldn't just be "learning a lesson", but we should ALSO be prosecuting those who put that corrupt law (FL 765) in place. They ALL should be behind bars, including Jeb Bush. After all, HE signed that law!
I think hospitals in general are more aware of this issue these days. I had major, planned surgery more than a year before Schiavo became a cause celebre, and during a pre-op session a week before surgery, those of us who were having it on the same day were instructed about the medical power of attorney and urged to get one before the big event. Some people in the room looked startled, hearing about it for the first time. I was very glad we had done ours at the same time we did the rest of our estate planning, several years earlier.
Same here, because somebody would be dead besides my kid!
I remember having this discussion with my husband and father last year during this melodrama. Since I do have that legal document in place, and it designates my husband as the decision-maker, my father agreed that he is the one who will decide, even if my father might be unhappy with the decision.
As it should be. I congratulate you.
I have decided what the person wants is dictating your own destiny. If there is no God, it makes no difference; if there is a God, we must act the best we know to do what we believe is the right thing to do, not according to our will but according to His. His will usually seems to be taking the high, hard road in rough times and there are blessings in between the testing.
I will never know His purpose in allowing this to play out the way it did.
A trivial, odd thing happened to me on the way taking out the garbage last night. A lens popped out of my glasses when I was shovelling snow early about January. Then the snow plow covered it up deeper perhaps I thought. Or it could have fallen on the other side. Or it could have been in the house somewhere but I noticied I couldn't "see" right just before I finished shovelling that day and found the cause when I got in the house, so I figured it had to be out there somewhere. The snow melted. I had been out there day and at night with a flashlight about fifteen times going over the entire area where I could have lost it. It snowed again a few times. I prayed to God through Jesus Christ that I would find my lens.
With my flashlight, there it was lying on the street side right on the edge of the sidewalk where it could have gotten stepped on or ridden over by a kid back by the alley. It was not there before. A squirrel or something put it on the sidewalk. If I had taken out the garbage going the short way by yanking the back door open which sticks, instead of going the long way out the front door and around, I would not have found it then. I might have eventually. It might not have gotten broken. There are simply some things we cannot know.
I am grateful to God for that small favor because it is a big thing to me to be able to see right when I drive. I've had to use my spare pair of reading glasses which are a different strength.
No big deal, you think? Maybe it isn't in the grand scheme of things, but I am grateful indeed for that little piece of good fortune.
I won't go into why I just didn't get new ones at this time; I certainly checked it out and could have squeezed two new pair into the budget because I need a new prescription anyway.
Really, the issue that no one can disagree with is that polygomy is illegal in this country. Terri's immediate family wanted her alive, Michael wanted to pull the tube. If Michael Shiavo was going to assert his marital rights over Terri he should not have had a common law marriage. No one faults him for moving on, but moving on means moving on. You can't have you're cake and eat it too.
But . . . . but . . . . but . . . Michael and his loony lawyer and murdering judge assured us that Terri died a "peaceful" death that was "beautiful"! Does this mean that it wasn't!!??
Shh. It means whatever Michael means it to mean at the moment, subject to his whim because he was so very close to Terri, even as she was hospitalized as evidenced by the records of his visits. (more sarcasm)
Really, the issue that no one can disagree with is that polygomy is illegal in this country. Terri's immediate family wanted her alive, Michael wanted to pull the tube. If Michael Shiavo was going to assert his marital rights over Terri he should not have had a common law marriage. No one faults him for moving on, but moving on means moving on. You can't have you're cake and eat it too.
If you're going to fall back on legalistic arguments, be sure that the law is with you.
I can't find any evidence that Florida recognizes common-law marriages. Even if they did, can you demonstrate that Michael and his second wife had a common-law marriage?
He didn't make the choices you wish he had made concerning his wife's care. That in no way means he was unfit as a guardian.
Those of us who have lost dear ones from agonizing diseases would not have prolonged their misery through such pretenses as TS family tried to palm off. They caused at least the last five years of her agony.
""I can't find any evidence that Florida recognizes common-law marriages. Even if they did, can you demonstrate that Michael and his second wife had a common-law marriage?""
Sure I can.
1) They lived together
2) He sired children by her
btw, they are now married.
But his clear conflict of interest in regards to her well-being, his refusal to allow physical therapy, and his inability to remember her wish not to live in a coma until 7 years had passed (by which time he taken up with the other woman) screams that he was unfit to anyone daring to take note.
Cohabitation and children don't always a common-law marriage make.
Here in Texas, you have to have a financial interest in common, and represent the both of you as husband and wife.
And you are blessed with a loving husband, Terri was not. There were conflicts of interest that anyone would deem unwise at best to allow her to have Michael continue as her sole legal guardian. Someone dropped the ball on this one and Terri died. all that has been said is not true, get the facts.
Cohabitation and children don't always a common-law marriage make.
Here in Texas, you have to have a financial interest in common, and represent the both of you as husband and wife.
And in Florida, it appears that not even that does it. Florida does not seem to recognize the concept of "common-law marriage" at all.
what a crock. he loved her enough to carry out her final wishes.
and FYI most people designate their spouse as the person to make decisions in the event of incapacitation. if you don't trust your spouse, then maybe you shouldn't be married.
the lesson - as stated above - is to simply complete a durable power of attorney for health care. my wife and i filled out the simple forms in about 10 minutes. then there is no confusion as to when you want to pull the plug.
Dear Michael,
In the event that I suffer some disability, or possibly if you strangle me.
I want you to proclaim your love for me and collect as much insurance money as you can in my name. As soon as you collect it Michael, discontinue all therapy that might help me.
I then want you to hire lawyers to have the courts kill me with that money if necessary. I love you Michael.
PS
Don't forget to wait 8 years to say that I wanted to die.
Love,
Terri
In the event that I suffer some disability, or possibly if you strangle me.
And this is the part where your post loses credibility....
Audio of Terri's medical history
Terri on the road to recovery before the second stage began.
"And this is the part where your post loses credibility...."
Maybe this adds to the credibility...
And if strangling fails, maybe you can just dehydrate me to death for as long as it takes. Remember I have a strong heart so it may take thirteen days without a drop to complete your killing."
Nope, it's still bizarre conspiracy theory nonsense. Funny how people liked to spread that, but nobody was willing to come forward under oath, huh?
I understand the emotionalism inherent in this situation, but too many people get caught up in and let their good sense fly out the window. They're willing to swallow anything, no matter how goofy.
That is right. That is why you should get educated in some facts instead of the Kool Aid being passed around.
You hadn't listened to the audio. It takes an hour and twenty minutes to hear it and it is just chock full of facts which are documented.
Yes, this is a conservative site.
Wanting to give the State power over medical decisions is not a conservative value.
Murder of an innocent is not a conservative value. I will repeat the link for you. The post is #1880. Goverment was complicit in this murder from the beginning and we have tons of evidence to back it up. Ironically, your post was to the one, bjs1779, who holds the huge repository of such facts, different from the emotional and vague types like me.
Please do not think I am attacking you, am really trying to help. Congratulations on your son!
As I illustrate, the death culture works hard through the media and elsewhere to sway otherwise reasonable people into snoozing while they work their evil.
If you can listen to the whole audio without being clouded by preconceptions, you will see what I mean.
8mm
It's also not what happened here.
I've watched the tapes. I've read more words than I care to remember. IMHO, it's all a lot of emotion spilling over.
Medical decisions do not belong to the state. They belong to the patient's guardian. That you don't like the decisions this guardian made does not invalidate that principle, and does not warrant handing the decision making over to the government in any form.
TS was more than brain damaged her brain was gone and the autopsy showed that. There was nothing left but a shell enclosing autonomic processes.
No one would want to survive in such a condition. There was no "murder" involved either but a medical decision which is made HUNDREDS of times a day when there is no hope left. Nor was there enough consciousness left to experience agony.
Could I have made decisions to prolong the life of my wife through extraordinary procedures - yes. Would she have wanted that? No. Would there been anything accomplished thereby? No. It was time to let her go just as it was time to let Terri go.
I agree with what you are trying to say to the degree that those decisions should not be made by an uninformed probate judge, but they were. Murder is a crime for which the State should have purview, but has not yet done so.
The evidence extant is not emotional stuff spilling over, but lab reports, etc. The report of the multiple bone fractures she incurred at that time is not emotional at all, just cold evidence.
"Words, after all, mean things". To us conservatives they do, to the people pouring the Kool Aid, words are tools for effect, not for intrinsic meaning.
From the autopsy report:
Manner of Death: UNKNOWN
No, I'm sorry, but the only people involving the State were those who claimed that Michael was not a fit guardian, but failed to provide any evidence to support it.
Manner of Death: UNKNOWN
And I'm sure that actually seems important.
Until you actually read the autopsy report.
You should feel sorry, floating a little Kool Aid mantra toy in a sea of evidence to the contrary. Be careful. Don't take a mantra to a fact fight. You have shown a keen ability to completely ignore the facts placed on your doorstep.
I am trying to give the benefit of doubt to you with the presumption that you just are not informed. You are making this difficult. Go ahead and take the time to hear the audio. Go ahead and ask folks about the evidence. If you are still plugging your ears and shielding your eyes, you may need to change your profile page.
But don't throw mantras at us. We have heard them all. Discussion and questions are what makes the topic come alive. Mantra throwing is the stuff of the liberals.
Where's the evidence? Not allegations, but evidence. Nowhere.
It doesn't matter if those who advocated Terri's murder, here on this board or elsewhere, argue that it *wasn't* murder. It was -- it most certainly was -- and they'll stand before God one day and explain how they advocated depriving a living human being of food and water until she died. We'll give an account for every idle word. Don't worry...they will have to answer. I want to see them argue with God, face to face, and try to convince him they were right.
I would pray to God with the hope that the radical activists who attached themselves to Terri Schiavo stayed FAR away from me and my family.
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