Posted on 04/03/2006 8:13:43 AM PDT by doug from upland
It's also possible he now lives in a burb of Dallas, TX. If we're going to talk about some future metro being attacked, this bunch sure is clustering up in that area--all the same OKC/Norman people.
You are correct. It's funny. Dana's district is less than an hour away. I knew his name had the extra "a" but when I looked it up I saw it spelled without the "a" in several places on google. I shouldn't have let that influence me. I should have gone directly to his website to be sure.
Bogus arguments are a tip-off that you wouldn't buy the real reasons for what someone is doing.
I still can't believe the Bush administration isn't having someone push this issue. I've written to Karl Rove and the WH about this matter and find it really shocking that they seem to ignore the evidence.
Hi dfu -
I've not read Jayna's book, but had seen excerpts of it online over the years. I have a very specific interest in the bombing, but have avoided focusing much on it over the decade.
I wish I knew *why* I have had so much apathy towards the subject--it doesn't make any sense to me. I lived in OKC for a number of years and consider it my 2nd home and yet, I have not set foot back in the City since the bombing. Haven't been to the site, haven't seen the memorial in person.
The morning it happened, I got a call from a family member within a minute or two that it was on TV. I watched in horror every minute of what transpired from there on out. Got on the phone to check with family in OKC and determined they were OK. Called friends and determined they were all right. Then I started having trouble getting through--all lines down.
Because of some ties I have, I called Channel 4, which I think was Jayna's station. I wanted to see what the OU alums here in Houston could do for the people in OKC. Got through to the newsroom and they asked me how I got ahold of them. Didn't know--I just dialed and got them! They said their phones were all down.
As it turned out, I couldn't hang the phone up--we had an open line by mistake. The newsperson asked me to stay on and I told her I had an extra line I could switch over to - so I clicked back and forth and relayed messages for Ch. 4 all morning and afternoon in to early evening. I was trying to get some oilmen here to send their private jets, with doctors and medical supplies that were needed, plus whatever else we heard about - Red Cross people, food, so forth.
Without cable, I had to surf the networks all day (it was odd when they would go back to the studio at Ch. 4 in OKC and I would see the person I was talking to on the phone, interspersed with horrific scenes at the site). I soaked up every bit of the tragedy.
Within a few days, I found that only a few of my friends or family up there knew anyone who had been hurt and none of us knew anyone who had been killed, except my best friend lived across the street from Bayley's grandmother.
I cried for days over the individual stories and the recovery efforts. I knew so many of the people who were interviewed -- doctors, attorneys, journalists. People I had worked with when I lived there. If I had still been there, I very easily could have been in the Journal-Record building that day and hurt like a friend of a friend was, or even in my former office which was only 5-6 blocks away.
This hit close to home, is what I'm trying to say. And yet, the minute they said it was possibly Middle Eastern terrorists who did it (very early on the first morning), I just tuned that part out. I know nothing about the Middle East; don't read or understand Arabic or Muslims or Islamic customs; don't really want to know anything about them.
I've met some sheiks, even a couple of Saudi princes, but they were "good guys" and were very modern and were here on *my territory,* and were business professionals or friends of friends, so I don't associate them with terrorists.
That doesn't explain, really, why I just went "cold" about the who and why of the bombing, but I did. I just didn't care about those things. It happened and we needed to grieve and heal and take care of the surviving Oklahomans. I tried to get some money appropriated from my OU club and they turned me down - even though we had OU students who lost their parents in Murrah.
It was the strangest reaction I've ever seen. Normally, we rush to the aid of any Okie anywhere. I was even called names at our board meeting by the other board members. I never understood that. They said they just didn't care. Well, I sent what I could, but I still had that empty feeling inside about the culprits and the "why" of it. It just didn't matter.
I followed only cursorily McVeigh's legal maneuverings. Couldn't stand the sight of the man, so paid little attention. I wasn't online yet, so didn't have info at my fingertips, but did read everything I could get my hands on about the victims and the aftermath in the City.
I watched specials and they were filled with friends of mine, or the offspring of friends of mine being interviewed. I did grieve for a year or more and talked about it every chance I got - but just from the standpoint of the victims, not the legal or political wranglings.
My best friend there was somewhat like me, although she felt the Middle Eastern thing that we first heard was the truth and she still believes that. However, like me, she has not set foot on the site since it happened. And she only lives less than 10 blocks away. I have no idea what a shrink would say about our attitudes, but it puzzles both of us. It's almost like we care *too* much or it's just *too big* to wrap our minds around it.
Now, as far as the things Jayna is putting forth in light of this new discovery -- first of all, I have to say, it's entirely possible the terrorists-in-training who asked about the OKC bombing and if it was Yousef's - don't you think they just had it mixed up with the first WTC attack? That's what it sounded like to me. Like they know as little about Oklahoma as I do about Baghdad.
That brings me to one little thing that propelled me into focusing now -- meaning in recent years, not just today. In 1997, I think it was, someone I had known in junior high school died in OKC, committing suicide, I was told. I asked around about him when I heard, although we didn't have any friends in common, but some attorneys I knew said it was true.
He "knew too much" about the bombing and couldn't bear it, is what I was told. This was Asst US attorney Ted Richardson. We had met in 9th grade, when I lived in a little town north of Tulsa and he lived in OKC, Putnam City. We were all Latin students, who had an annual convention in Norman. One day, he and some others skipped school and drove all the way from OKC to my little town and surprised us by popping in to the lunchroom at lunchtime.
From then on, we just ran into each other different places through the years, though we lived in different parts of the state or even different states, or at OU or football games--or downtown, or in the tunnel under the Murrah Building and the Annex (where I got divorced, BTW).
He was set to begin grand jury proceedings within a few days on, I think, insurance fraud charges, maybe (?) against Samir Khalil, the employer of Hussain Hashem Al-Hussaini. You had several threads here on Teddy's death. His name was Ted Richardson.
So, I'd like to continue with this and follow Jayna's progress. I did a little sleuthing on some of the ME people in relation to the Hinrichs bombing in Norman last fall and ran into some things that still puzzle me and they have a direct bearing on the items Jayna discusses - which gives me a little more perspective.
In fact, I wish I knew the motel where Khalil's visitors or others stayed (did McVeigh not ever stay in an OKC motel at all?) - the one mentioned as being 30 blocks north of the bomb site and having a gas station attached to it. I wondered if it was on 39th Expressway. It was said they left there with the Ryder truck an hour before the explosion - is that right?
When my then-husband and I moved to the City, we lived in one of those crummy little motels for about 3 weeks, waiting for the moving van. There were 3 old-timey ones in a row and when I looked up Khalil's properties, he didn't own any ofthem, but he owns nearly every house on the next 4-5 streets, for blocks and blocks.
The motels are owned by ME's but not names I recognize, lol, except the one that owns the motel where we stayed. They were the family of a business associate here in Houston! Their name is like Smith (Patel), but they own virtually every small town motel up and down the road between Dallas and OKC.
None of that came as a surprise to me in the light of day *today* but what did amaze me was that these documents talk about the OKC mosques and such - and the one I had sleuthed because of a Norman connection was exactly one block from "my" motel! Could this be the same one or nearby which is the one talked about in the docs?
That's why I'm still here and glued to the conversation, but have very little of any kind of "knowledge" to contribute - just wish I could. I'm almost brand new to the subject, because of previous inattention, but completely studied-up on it, from total immersion over the years - and hoping for some transfer by osmosis!
Thank you for everything y'all are doing.
It's OK - he's in the OC, right? I just *guessed* - "R" by his name in CA - had to be the OC!!
Never fear- I'm here, lurking and linking.
What bogus argument is that?
Good!
It's what I'd call an "argument of omission", i.e., saying nothing, doing nothing, ignoring it all -- or, if pressed, suggesting that it's "paranoia", "conspiracy theory", and so forth.
Tell you what. I'll get Davis's book and read your little link. But, of course, since you "talk" to Lance, anything I find or say will be immediately invalidated with your superior "inside" information, so really what's the point.
If you really read the link, you'd know that I didn't talk to Lance; that is a direct quote from the reporter. ROFL
I've never seen a freeper so angry that a link from a legitimate news source was provided for them 4 times but still ignoring the information contained within.
Editorial from this morning's (4/4) Daily Oklahoman:
WE THOUGHT we had heard the last from California Rep. Dana Rohrabacher last summer, after he said he would drop his ridiculous plan to hold hearings to explore conspiracy theories tied to the Oklahoma City bombing. Alas, we were mistaken.
SNIP...
We suggest that Hyde, R-Ill., toss Rohrabacher's proposal in the trash and tell his colleague in no uncertain terms that taxpayer money won't be wasted in this way. McVeigh planned and carried out the bombing. Nichols assisted. Those facts are clear 11 years later, just as they'll be 11 years hence. Perhaps by then we really will have heard the last from this California rabble-rouser.
END
Link: http://newsok.com/print.php?article=1806106
As an Oklahoma resident, I find it interesting that the local paper finds this matter to be completely settled.
Your thoughts????
I think there's no doubt that McVeigh and Nichols did what they were charged with doing. But there's no doubt they were assisted by ME terrorists and it's interesting the paper is ignoring the evidence that a report (Davis) in their own state has provided.
report s/b reporter
Too much credit to the Congrees, swampy. Didn't they just bring John Dean up to testify (sell his book) against Bush? Sorry, I don't assign -any- credibility just because they do a supporting role for Congresscritters grandstanding.
And I dothn't protest anything, but I got jumped on for asking for what apparently didn't exist: a simple summary of the whole 'she-bang' that makes sense to people with a network-news attention span.
"Hey bub! What's all the OKC hubbub?" "As if you don't already know! Read the links, idiot!" The staunchest converts are on this thread, and if someone can't really get a curious bystander on board, then how are you to grow the movement? I had not even kept up enough to know until yesterday that nobody thinks Padilla is JD2 anymore, and I considered myself somewhat aware of Jayna's stuff. I think these massive list-o-links are more dangerous to the truth than the cover-up, because the list-o-links LOOKS like a Mel Gibson "Conspiracy Theory" plot with extra tinfoil to most people 'on the outside'.
What I'm further concerned about, is that this story has been going nowhere because it hasn't gained enough momentum---to gain more momentum.
If we're waiting for the Great Oz of Congress to give this story life, then it is already dead. It's a 77 TransAm running street races in 1st gear. It's going to run into the ground like this.
Does that mean the "coverup" wins? Maybe. But no amount of Jayna's book sales will make up for the interest gap. No amount of blog chatter will make it happen.
Sadly, it may be that Rohrbacher has the power to squelch this by ignoring it...from whence he gets more power! They love that.
So my point about Schippers, though, is two fold. He's a smart beltway guy. He knows how to stroke those committees. If he thought this was the huge deal that we do, he'd get it done. I'm concerned that he's not as convinced as we'd like him to be....and that if he's not moving hell/high water to get this forefront, then we're unlikely to light a fire everywhere else.
Schippers (or others) could bring her to the steps/door of the Capitol as a lightning rod. Have press conferences, etc. But he doesn't: why? Maybe because he thinks it'll make her look like a tinfoil whackjob. Maybe she prefers to stir the pot from afar.
I will continue minimizing and packaging the "mini-OKC synopsis" to help spread this to the un-warsh-ed. But from a realistic perspective, I see this being buried as another JFK conspiracy, and frankly, I think they are winning by capitalizing on the "truth teller" bungling.
I don't know what to think about them other than they are in denial.
Bump to the thread
As far as the Daily Oklahoman was concerned, it was pretty much "settled" by around April 20th or 21st, 1995.
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