Posted on 03/31/2006 5:51:19 PM PST by Aliska
Yup. All the warning signs are there. This particular one is new to me; intuitively I would stay away from dating sites, even the upscale ones they advertise on the radio.
I've met some nice men on the net, and some not so nice, but I wasn't looking for romance, just a friend now and then.
Thank heaven you wised up. This is sickening really. American women are disappointing unless you get lucky because of the way they grow up in our society, so naturally men seek out women from other cultures where their values may tend toward the older, conservative ways. They're corrupted all over the planet now, and it's a shame for the nice women who are still out there waiting for a chance and Mr. Right.
This is anonymous, so I'll lay it out there. The last "nice" woman from around here with two kids gave my son herpes. You can imagine what that has done to his psyche. Some will say he deserved it.
Maybe so, but his business partner cheats on his wife, no one wants to be around her because she is so angry and negative and he doesn't want to get a divorce because of his three kids and just built an $800,000 house, doesn't want a divorce because he would be taken to the cleaners financially because he makes so much money, and some people have had umpteen sex partners and test out clean. What a world!
One way or another, you play with fire and you are going to get burned. I learned that lesson in different ways years ago, never found Mr. Right, and at this point can't say but what maybe it's been a blessing. I've been lonely but learned to fill my life with other things, and have probably been spared another divorce or two.
I saved your post. Thanks much!
I should have thought about that after my ex and I divorced. I still had her credit card and I was still listed on it untill I cancelled it. She could have bought me a new wife. lmao
Maybe you can share your experience with these guys.
Tell your son to use a reputable agency and check scam sites.
Yoshkar-Ola.com is decent.
I didn't use an agency however I know folks who have (on both sides of the Atlantic), there's a ton of scams (on both sides of the Atlantic!) best thing is to either go there (and learn Russian first) or use a reputable agency (and again learning the local language isn't optional).
"Offer to have your friend in the Moscow police department meet her to verify her identity before you send her money. That got rid of one real fast. "
LOL! Danny, that will get rid of ALL Russian women real fast. Moscow cops are known for raping women, abusing them, pimping them out, robbing them, etc. I'd be more worried about a Russian gal who would say, "sure, go ahead, I'll meet the militia guy." I lived in Moscow for more than 5 years and I know tons of very nice Russian ladies who quiver and shake any time a car load of Moscow militia cruise by them.
If your son has his heart set on a Russian lady, might I be so bold as to suggest he look here in the States? There are plenty of Russian women in the US (legally) who are either divorced from previous husbands, won the green card lottery, immigrated due to work, or came over as a kid. The single ones can be found on various dating sites (one is specifically for Russians in America and costs nothing- if you're interested let me know and I'll freepmail you the web address). The reason I suggest this is a.) they're already here in the States, and b.) they're not looking for a "passport" since they're already here!
If he's set on going to Russia, I recommend he go with a friend and don't use an agency. It's extremely easy to meet nice girls without the help of those agencies. While I know there are reputable agencies out there, the ones I've seen in action when I lived over there have been horrendus. I was in Odessa, Ukraine about 3 years ago and the hotel I was staying at had a group of men from the States on a bride-hunting trip. What the poor guys didn't know was several of their prospective "brides" worked in the hotel bar as prostitutes. No amount of "background checking" will find this out, as bribery is and will remain the name of the game over there for quite some time.
Basically, the rule of thumb is to stick close to your age group, meet her friends (if she doesn't want you to that's should be a huge red flag), and at the sign of any "doubts" about her back off completely. Also, normal Russian women do NOT ask people they barely know to send them money. They are too proud and consider that sort of thing immoral.
First, my son was just playing, I think, curious about foreign women. He could care less about Russia; he's a neat guy, has a few issues, but plenty of women here would like him. He is the problem. He can't find a new love until he's over his wife. So that's that. Why set up any woman for a disappointment until he's really back on his feet again, if ever?
Now the thing of it is, my granddaughter takes a look at the photos (she's almost 22), I don't even know if they are really of her and states unequivocally that she's a whore. One picture doesn't match the other two, but I'm not good at these things.
I looked up the IP address of the mail server; it is owned by a Russian couple(?) out of Washington State here in the US, I think but it also says Amsterdam. I've been through the red light district at night there, and I felt like it was a trip through hell.
The ISP or whatever is rambler.ru
OrgName: RIPE Network Coordination Centre OrgID: RIPE Address: P.O. Box 10096 City: Amsterdam StateProv: PostalCode: 1001EB Count82.198.27.164 Record Type: IP Address ry: NL ReferralServer: whois://whois.ripe.net:43 NetRange: 82.0.0.0 - 82.255.255.255 CIDR: 82.0.0.0/8 NetName: 82-RIPE NetHandle: NET-82-0-0-0-1 Parent: NetType: Allocated to RIPE NCC NameServer: NS-PRI.RIPE.NET NameServer: NS3.NIC.FR NameServer: SEC1.APNIC.NET NameServer: SEC3.APNIC.NET NameServer: SUNIC.SUNET.SE NameServer: TINNIE.ARIN.NET Comment: These addresses have been further assigned to users in Comment: the RIPE NCC region. Contact information can be found in Comment: the RIPE database at http://www.ripe.net/whois RegDate: 2002-11-23 Updated: 2004-03-16 % This is the RIPE Whois query server #1. % The objects are in RPSL format. % % Note: the default output of the RIPE Whois server % is changed. Your tools may need to be adjusted. See % http://www.ripe.net/db/news/abuse-proposal-20050331.html % for more details. % % Rights restricted by copyright. % See http://www.ripe.net/db/copyright.html % Note: This output has been filtered. % To receive output for a database update, use the "-B" flag. % Information related to '82.198.27.0 - 82.198.27.255' inetnum: 82.198.27.0 - 82.198.27.255 netname: NATA-INFO descr: Nata-Info Dial-Up Network country: RU admin-c: LKV2000-RIPE tech-c: EVE7-RIPE status: ASSIGNED PA mnt-by: SATGATE-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered person: Kirill V Lupandin address: SatGate LLC address: 942 Windemere Dr. NW address: OR 82001 Salem address: USA remarks: phone: +7 0112 573 073 phone: +7 4012 573 073 remarks: fax-no: +7 0112 573 071 fax-no: +7 4012 573 071 e-mail: kirill@satgatellc.com nic-hdl: LKV2000-RIPE mnt-by: SATGATE-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered remarks: modified for Russian phone area changes person: Elena V Egorova address: 942 Windemere Dr. NW address: OR 82001 Salem address: USA remarks: phone: +7 0112 573 073 phone: +7 4012 573 073 remarks: fax-no: +7 0112 573 071 fax-no: +7 4012 573 071 e-mail: jeg@satgatellc.com nic-hdl: EVE7-RIPE mnt-by: SATGATE-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered remarks: modified for Russian phone area changes % Information related to '82.198.27.0/24AS21166' route: 82.198.27.0/24 descr: Nata-Info Dial-Up Network origin: AS21166 mnt-by: SATGATE-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered
I'm blocked at getting past this first tier, note this is just a block of numbers. I bolded the IP address on the header of her email. I don't know how to decode headers any further. Those look like European phone numbers to me.
Now as far as I know, she could not exist, could be held in thrall by some pimp who is intercepting and controlling her, writing the letters, interpreting them, etc. I ain't sympathetic to no male pimp.
What if she is trapped in something somewhere else? I've no reason to assume she is anywhere other than somewhere in Tatarstan, Russia.
There isn't much I can do, a soul is worth $100, but I don't trust the investigators over there. I hope my son doesn't have any more entanglements with her, but she might be a person who needs help. I'm not sending her any money. I just don't know what to do.
Behind the makup and tramp look, I see a pretty girl who may really want to come to this country or a happier life. Or she could like her lifestyle, what do I know? There are other ways of getting what you want. There are lots of Russian men in Chicago, 200 miles from me. We don't even have a Russian Orthodox Church here, just two Greek Orthodox churches. She says she is Christian; that means nothing. My son says that, too, but he's very nominal and doesn't go to church since his wife didn't want anything to do with it once she had her church wedding.
So I'm going to do a few more searches on the text of the emails from her to me and my son and try to figure out the best thing to say and write her back telling her I believe she is involved in a scam and maybe if she wants something better, there is something that can be done. If she is addicted to drugs, I'm not willing to try to help her further.
I know there is a terrible sex slave trade with Russian women, and I think it is awful. Some are held against their will.
I don't give a rat's ass about those Nigerian scammers, but if this girl is for real, I do care about her fate, just don't want it to be with my son. And I don't want to get in over my head, but maybe destiny has a hand in this for me somehow, but not as a matchmaker. I'm not a real preachy type, but I do have firm traditional values.
If this is a scam and someone is trapped in it who wants out, I want to help however I can if only to put her in touch with decent people who could help her.
Now this is interesting. The names in the whois results, Kirill V Lupandin address: SatGate LLC address: 942 Windemere Dr. NW address: OR 82001 and Elena V Egorova address: 942 Windemere Dr. NW address: OR 82001 Salem appear on this Russian detective blacklist website
That Olga is a different girl. Maybe the US authorities ought to be looking at this couple from Washington or Oregon. Maybe I tipped my hand too soon by publishing that much here.
See Romanov's response to me in Post 48.
LOL so sometimes the culture void makes what might seem a reasonable suggestion somewhat impractical to say the least.
Since it's hard for them to get visa's to the U.S. and since I'm a little leary of traveling to Russia, I had suggested meeting in a third country. But then I saw a documentary here on how Russian women were being lured to third countries for jobs only to be forced into prostitution. So I realized why my suggestion of third countries were received less than warmly.
For a while I put very severe warnings against scammers on my first emails to Russian women, thinking that if the scammers bothered to read the emails they would go elsewhere, while non-scammers would ignore the warnings. But then I read on one of the anti-scam sites, where real Russian women would be offended by such tactics. I still express a concern about scammers, and point out that I will never send money over the untraceable Western Union service. But it's a softer message. And many scammers still try despite the warning.
I don't doubt that the one I used the Moscow policeman trick on was a scammer. She was wanting $500 wired to her over Western Union so that she could fly to me, because of last minute unforeseen expenses.
Maybe Romanov can suggest a variation of that scheme that a Russian woman would respect. Maybe a lawyer instead of a policeman, or maybe a soda shop attendant.
I thought about requiring a reference from a church or priest. Since I'm only going after Christians, they ought to be able to tell me what church they go to. And the good Father should be able to give me a reference on the girl and the family.
I've also asked a couple to set up videoconferencing. It didn't scare off the girls I suggested that to, who did turn out to eventually want funds sent over Western Union. But it was hard to find a service over there that provided videoconferencing, and the girls certainly didn't offer to help locate one.
That might be a good idea, but it might put the priest on the hook. How would you know it was really a priest?
I've been going through google groups, and it appears that even if a foreign bride isn't a scammer, the divorce rate is very high. Some of them get divorces right away as soon as they get their green card. What is really bad is that if you sponsor them, you are required to support them and provide medical insurance unless they have worked for so long here. I haven't verified that.
I think the idea suggested that if you have your heart set on a Russian woman to try to find one who is already in the US first.
Whatever you decide, good luck to you.
Here's a good one:
She looks like the Russian version of Ann Coulter. He's not bad either. It could be another bs site.
I used to read the Eastern Orthodox newsgroup on usenet, and there was a Canadian orthodox guy on there who met a girl from one of the former Soviet bloc eastern Europe countries and married her. Don't know what became of him, last I remember he went to work there because she didn't want to leave. He was sure on cloud 9 for awhile. Hope things are working out for them.
There have been cases where Russians operating from the United States ran these types of scams.
I usually do a trace on the IP address as well. Most of the time it will say Moscow or it will say Global. But I've traced emails from beautiful white models about to travel to Africa, only to confirm that the email was already coming from Africa. I've gotten to where someone even mentions Africa, I shut down the conversation.
I don't do that with Russians. A lot of the Russian ads do sound like the women there are more family oriented and more traditional about the role of the wife towards the husband. But some of the sites have been groomed for the West. I went to a site in the Russian language using Babelfish to translate it. What I found there was 50% of the women have no religion. And more smokers and drinkers than what I found on the sites that are in English.
After having an American wife that I met in church who was never satisfied with how much I made, even though I was easily in the top 25% according to IRS earning tables. I like to think that a woman that comes from Russia, might not be as spoiled.
I found this girl on two other scam sites, two more men. She had changed her name slightly. It's amazing what you can find if you try different things. One of the guys gave an address and I googled that. That's what gave me her other names (spelling variations). It said if I wanted to see the photo on one scamsite to disable the firewall lol. Don't think that would be a good idea. There's no reason to do that to see a photo.
How many women have you "screened"?
I'll check back tomorrow; it's time to quit. There ought to be a better way to find a Russian bride. Go to google, click on groups, click on advanced groups search and put russian bride scams in the first box.
I didn't read all of them, but you might get some good tips and subscribe to some of the usenet groups. There were a few success stories. I used to read soc.culture.russian quite a bit. There's also one called alt.visa.us.marriage-based. Another group is alt.religion.christian.east-orthodox. This has been discussed on lots of different groups.
I've never met any Russian women who have posted on FR but there have been a few Russian men. Wish we could ask them about some of this.
I think that whois I posted operating in the US is part of this scam. They could plead that they are not responsible for what their subscribers post, but I'll bet they get a cut. They would be within the reach of US law. The one scam site wrote back and told me:
Thank you for your kind words about our site.
Unfortunately, there are no laws against scammers yet.
Best regards,
Anti-scam.org team
I'm not sure that is entirely true; it's just that a lot of it would fall under the purview of international law which is difficult to enforce.
You want a bride and I want answers.
Why does this person want to know so much about my family? Could any of it be a threat to any of us?
Well my thought was to get her to tell me what church she went to. And then see if the church had a website with an email that I could correspond directly to. Because if she provides you the priest's email, then you don't know. Unless of course you call the church and ask to speak to the priest. But I would have to arrange an interpreter to make that call.
And unlike the U.S., I haven't really found Russian phone books or yellow pages on the web. Maybe I just don't know where to look.
"it appears that even if a foreign bride isn't a scammer, the divorce rate is very high"
How much higher can it be? I've read that first time marriages in America are now running a 50% divorce rate and second marriages are 60%.
I've thought about the Russians that are already here. But the thing that scares me about them, is that they have already been through a divorce in the U.S. and know how the system is tilted in their favor and how easy it is to run from a marriage instead of work on it. I'd rather have a wife who doesn't realize the full extent of how bad she can legally screw her husband over if she becomes dissatisfied for any reason.
The age difference is part of the draw to Russian women. Russian women don't seem to blink an eye at your being 10 years older than them. American women balk at more than a 5 year age difference. And I see a lot of American women that request only men younger than them. I wonder if they sit at home a lot.
One thing to keep in mind about Russian gals and the "whore" look. What we consider to be tarty, they consider to be fashionable. When you get right down to it, it's a matter of survival. There are very few eligible and desirable single men in Russia, but tons and tons of eligible and single women. So, the competition is tough. The biggest and easiest way to get attention is to dress revealingly. While that may upset Western sensibilities it's quite normal over there.
Also, regarding the "blacklists" etc. Keep in mind that when a gal signs up for an agency she provides enough of her details and pictures that an unscrupulous person could use to their own benefit. I'd be willing to bet that most of the girls pictured on those lists (of scammers) have no idea that they've been "blacklisted" or that their images have been used to dupe lonely men. I know one gal who signed up to one Russian marriage agency and soon found her profile posted on several marriage angencies. She did some research and found out that some unscrupulous agencies sell their databases to others. This allows multiple agencies to sell the girl's email address, home address and phone number to unsuspecting men.
As far as worrying about the girl you're talking about is concerned, 1.) The "sex trade" in Russia is actually dominated by Ukrainian girls and run by Chechens, 2.) the vast majority of them are "volunteers" - i.e., they agree to work as a prostitute and usually can leave freely, or pay a "depature tax" - which can range from $50 to $500 dollars, 3.) if she was in trouble she wouldn't have time to play around on the internet, 4.) there are enough kind people (believe it or not) that she could easily find help, 5.) most of the Russian girls involved in the "forced sex trade" are located abroad -Israel, Hong Kong, Korea, Japan, Dubai, etc. - I don't have any real sympathy for them because you would have to have lived under a rock for the last 10 years to not know that those "dancing" jobs overseas are actually prostitution rings (there have been 1,000s of documentaries about it in Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, etc.), 6.) This may actually be a case of a girl trying her luck at spinning a sob story and getting some money. The easiest way to check her sincerity is to ask for her passport number and full name. If she won't provide it, she's a scammer. Plus, there are not to many nice Russian girls that will ask a stranger for money without feeling like a whore.
There is a much better way. They have their own version of a "yahoo" like personals website. It's www.mheart.ru - you'd need a bit of Russian to manuveur around it, but there are plenty of ladies looking for foreign men. The huge difference on this is these are the ladies who DONT want to use a marriage agency and aren't necessarily looking to get married immediately. That mheart website covers the globe.
Russian scam perpetrated from America
The problem is that no country really polices the net well. I think Child porn is the only thing on the net that is routinely prosecuted. Russia has let the scams go on for so long that they have really proliferated. So has Nigeria. But both are making arrests now. But I get the impression it's a drop in a bucket.
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