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To: jimtorr
"When the contract for CVN 77 was let, there was talk of incorporating some of the design features of the next series of carriers."

- Why are shipyards still building these monster carriers for future operations when they have the tri- service Raptor aircraft in final testing which has VTOL technology built in? Such an aircraft would make those long flight decks virtually obsolete while shrinking the size of the carrier and increasing it's aircraft carrying capacity.
26 posted on 03/18/2006 6:28:36 AM PST by finnigan2
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To: finnigan2

"- Why are shipyards still building these monster carriers for future operations when they have the tri- service Raptor aircraft in final testing which has VTOL technology built in? Such an aircraft would make those long flight decks virtually obsolete while shrinking the size of the carrier and increasing it's aircraft carrying capacity."

Because all then VTOL aircraft will take years to bring online, will not be available in great numbers for some time, and in the meantime, other aircraft like the F/A-18, S-3 and E-3 still have a lot of useful life in their airframes, and aren't VTOL. They still perform important roles and require a full-sized flight deck for launch and recovery with any sort of safety.

We will not talk about how systems like double hulling and the concept of reserve bouyancy affect the overall size of a ship, because that's an incredibly complicated subject, but it is another reason why these behemoths grow to such a size.

In addition, one purpose of a CVN is to steam anywhere over 75% of the earth's surface and arrive off an enemy's shore with an air force (80 or so aircraft, depending on mission) bigger than that of most small countries. Those aircraft require fuel, spare parts, repair facilities, ordnance, and the crews to maintain them, and therefore, the ship is by necessity, a monster.

You make a big mistake if you believe that shrinking the carrier's size automatically leads to an increase in aircraft capacity because of VTOL. If wwe had an all-VTOL airfleet, the ship would get smaller, true, but so would the compliment of aircraft because the smaller ship could not accomodate fuels, stores, etc to keep them in the air for extended periods of time.

Not to mention that VTOL aircraft carrying heavy loads eat fuel up in emormous quantities in the simple act of taking off. Even the Royal Navy, which operates small carriers with VTOL aircraft (Harriers), incorporates a 'ski-jump' bow to allow laden planes to make rolling take-offs, which is more fuel efficient and safer.

By the way, those RN carriers (the British call 'em 'Through-deck cruisers') are 1/3 the size of an American CVN and operate about 20 aircraft (mix of Harriers and helocopters). This is a fabulous arrangement for local operations (ASW, Local Air superiority) but you cannot porject power with it (read up on the Falkland's War).

I've served on three carriers in my lifetime (Midway, Enterprise, Eisenhower) as an aviation ordnanceman (AO1), and I'm damned proud of it. These ships have capabilities, and give commanders a flexibility, that the average person simply cannot comprehend.


30 posted on 03/18/2006 6:51:48 AM PST by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: finnigan2

I was on an amphib with Harriers. The pilots said they take off on the long runways to save fuel. They have to land vertically, though.


39 posted on 03/18/2006 7:40:58 AM PST by RandallFlagg (Roll your own cigarettes! You'll save $$$ and smoke less!(Magnetic bumper stickers-click my name)
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To: finnigan2
when they have the tri- service Raptor aircraft in final testing which has VTOL technology built in?

The Raptor, F-22, is USAF only. Too fragile to operate from a carrier and no V/STOL capability. You've confused the Raptor with the JSF, only one model of which, F-35B, has S/VTOL capability.

Such an aircraft would make those long flight decks virtually obsolete while shrinking the size of the carrier and increasing it's aircraft carrying capacity.

You don't know much about carrier ops or what happens to usable payload when operating in VTO mode. Also, a shorter flight deck means a smaller boat. A smaller boat means fewer aircraft, not more.

40 posted on 03/18/2006 7:42:00 AM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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