Islamic prayers could be illegal under new laws

The Age (Melbourne) ^ | 6th February 2006 | Barney Zwartz

[naturalman1975]

STANDARD Islamic prayers in mosques may be illegal under new anti-terror laws, international law specialist Ben Saul told a conference in Melbourne.

Dr Saul said yesterday it could be against the law to pray in Australian mosques for victory for the mujahideen in Iraq.

The conference also discussed the legality of showing training videos recruiting Muslims to fight in Chechnya.

The sedition laws applied only where Australia was at war with a country or group — so training videos for al-Qaeda, the Taliban or Iraq would be illegal. But if the Australian Government had proscribed some Chechen organisations, recruiting for them would be illegal.

Dr Saul, of the University of NSW, said the new sedition law criminalised some things said in a religious context, such as the standard prayer "may God grant victory to the mujahideen in Iraq".

"The legislation is very ambiguous. You don't necessarily have to encourage someone to fight Australian troops — even contributing blankets to mujahideen could be criminal."

Dr Saul told The Age the anti-terrorism laws were an excessive and unjustified over-reaction to the threat Australia faced, and some provisions breached human rights under international law.

"The risk to the US and UK is undoubtedly far greater than the risk to Australia, but we've adopted far more invasive orders. And unlike those countries, we don't have the protection of a bill of rights," he said. People could be subjected to house detention for the 10 years the legislation lasts without ever being charged.

"If one person in a mosque says something outrageous in support of terrorism, these laws allow the government to close down the entire mosque — an extremely disproportionate reaction which collectively punishes every worshipper," Dr Saul said.

He said there was confusion and uncertainty among Muslims about the new laws. Muslim leaders did not know what they could say until they saw how the laws were used.

Precise information about the terrorist threat to Australia had not been made public, so justification for the laws was hard to judge, Dr Saul said.

"Australians are deprived of information and asked to trust political judgements when we know they have been manipulated in the past," he said.

About 70 Muslim leaders and others attended the Darebin conference, which was funded by the Federal Government's Living in Harmony program.

[naturalman1975]

Dr Saul, of the University of NSW, said the new sedition law criminalised some things said in a religious context, such as the standard prayer "may God grant victory to the mujahideen in Iraq".

This is a standard prayer? Interesting.

"The legislation is very ambiguous. You don't necessarily have to encourage someone to fight Australian troops — even contributing blankets to mujahideen could be criminal."

It's called 'giving aid and comfort to the enemy', Dr Saul.

Don't get me wrong - I have some concerns about sedition laws myself, but if there are standard prayers that support terrorism, then the problem isn't with laws designed to deal with terrorism.

The problem is with the prayers.

[R. Scott]

The problem is with the prayers.

Most definitely.

[MarMema]

May God grant victory to all who fight islamofascists.

[MillerCreek]

Yes, ditto and ditto, the problem is with the prayers.

[LasVegasMac]

This should make a few towels / rags come unwrapped.

[montag813]

Don't get me wrong - I have some concerns about sedition laws myself, but if there are standard prayers that support terrorism, then the problem isn't with laws designed to deal with terrorism. The problem is with the prayers.

No...the problem is with the Muslims. They don't belong among us.

[john drake]

I'm still flabbergasted that several Western countries haven't come to the conclusion that the most obvious and extreme enemy of the West is Islam. Haven't they understood that both through word and deed, and the history of, the mohammedans that their mission is to destroy the West and make their citizens either muslims or second class citizens or slaves, or kill them?

My God (the Christian version), when is the West going to wake up? The enemy is already in our camps, waiting....and no amount of Western niceties and diversity and respect are going to make a difference with a group of barbarians who consider themselves your slavemasters. They understand only one thing, raw power, and are effectively controlled by one thing, fear. You deliver the death blow and subjugate them, they'll tow the line. And by the way, send them home to keep them at a safe distance.

[vbmoneyspender]

I admit this could be a problem for the Muslim religion in Australia if the only payers that Australian Imams utter are prayers for terrorists. Does anyone have any statistics on that. Do Australian Imams pray for terrorists a 100% of the time or only 50% of the time or maybe just 20% of the time. Either way, it sounds like a real dilemma to me

[2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten]

This is a standard prayer? Interesting.

This doesn't surprise me one little bit. In fact, my intuition tells me that this may turn out to be one of their milder "prayers".

I was thinking about this general issue not too long ago. If you accept that islam is a death cult (which I do) and you see their dedication to "prayer" you just have to ask yourself "What would a death cult 'pray' for?"

I suspect it ain't world peace.

[tkathy]

Truly a big move. Brainwashing youths into hatred and murder just can't be tolerated decade after decade.

[R. Scott]

And with the religion that spawns the prayers.

[MillerCreek]

Yes, absolutely.

[LibWhacker]

Excellent first move by Australia! But the problem goes beyond what they are saying in the mosques. How about the things they teach their kids in their schools and in their homes?

In Japan after WWII, we took over the schools, burned the old militaristic books, fired the old teachers. New teachers and new books were brought in which instilled an appreciation of liberty and democracy. Something similar has to be done now. Australia and all the other Western countries have to go the whole nine yards, or simply deport the b****rds (which is my preference).

But I've gotta admit, the Spanish Inquisition had the best approach: Muslims were either burned at the stake, forced to return to Northern Africa, or forced to convert to Christianity. If you "converted" but were later caught praying to Mecca, you were automatically burned at the stake. In order to keep an eye on muslims who claimed they had converted, ex-muzzies were made to keep the doors of their homes open on Fridays so the authorities, or anyone else with an interest, could see inside and make sure the inhabitants weren't secretly worshipping Allah.

[omega4412]

May God grant victory to all who fight islamofascists.

Amen. Isn't that a part of the daily prayers of almost all here who say daily prayers? For the military and police fighting the islamofascists.

[308MBR]

Exactly.

I wish we could do this in the US. I hope we have some (loyal) Arabic speakers listening to these prayers and sermons, either through attending or with electronics.

Sort of like walking through the pits at a dirt track, you just never know what you might find and learn.

[rawcatslyentist]

Their "bible" the Queeranus is nothing more than a directive to MURDER!

Sura 9:5 of the “Koran,” “Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush.”

"Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God." Sura 9:29

"Strike off their heads then, and strike off from them every finger tip." - Sura 8:12

Don't make them mad! They're already commanded to murder allah mankind! Don't make them mad!

There's nothing worse than having an angry satan worshiper saw your head off.
But on the other hand if the slimes are happy maybe they'll use a sharp knife, and be mercifull!

Don't make them mad! Respect their "right" to practice the religion of MURDER!

Aap aap ahh dap dap!!!!!
It's a religion of peace
It's a religion of peace

It aint Slim W, but this'll gitr done!
Kill A Commie For Mommie

Seven Dead Monkeys Page O Tunes

[Emmet Fitzhume]

Here, here.

Unfortunately, there will probably be fighting on the Australian streets due to this.

Wherever Islam exists, so do death and destruction.

[B Knotts]

What the heck kind of religion is this where a "standard" prayer roots on the terrorists?

[lightman]

Some prayers from the 1958 Lutheran Service Book and Hymnal:

For those in our country’s service in time of war

Almighty God, our heavenly Father, let your protection be upon all those who are in the service of our country. Guard them from all harm and danger of body and soul. Sustain and comfort those at home, especially in their hours of loneliness, anxiety, and sorrow. Prepare the dying for death and the living for your service. Give success to our arms on land and sea and in the air. And grant to us and all nations a speedy, just, and lasting peace, to the glory of your name and the coming of your kingdom; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen

For the Armed Forces of our Nation

Almighty and everlasting God, whose providence has given us as a people this great land stored with treasure and around it has cast the sea like a cloak: Bless, we pray, the officers and men and women of our armed forces as they perform the duties of their calling. Give them not only true love of country, but also love of you, and understanding of your love for all humanity, so that, relying on your almighty help, they may promote righteousness, honor, and unity among our people in time of peace, and be a means of fostering mutual respect and understanding among the peoples of the world; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen

For Victory:

O God, our refuge and strength, our very present help in trouble: Protect and prosper our beloved country in this time of war. Make of us, by your grace, a people worthy to be entrusted with victory; and so use, direct and bless our armed forces that they may be your servants in overcoming wrong and establishing liberty, truth, and righteousness in the earth; through Jesus Christ, your Son, our Lord. Amen

Against Evildoers

O Lord God Almighty, who alone rids away tyrants and stills the noise and tumult of the people: Scatter, we beg you, the counsels of them that secretly devise mischief, and bring the dealings of the violent to naught. cast down the unjust from high places and cause the unruly to cease from troublemaking. Restrain all envious and malicious passions and subdue the haters and evildoers, that the whole world may have rest before you, and that all nations may serve you; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen

[R. Scott]

I wish we could do this in the US. I hope we have some (loyal) Arabic speakers listening to these prayers and sermons, either through attending or with electronics.

I am hoping they will have a sound system loud enough to be heard outside – but not loud enough to disturb the neighbors.