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A fiasco best left in the US
The Australian ^ | January 11, 2006 | Eddy Gisonda

Posted on 01/11/2006 12:56:36 AM PST by Dundee

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With the appropriate checks and balances (and the will to use them), a Bill of Rights (such as in the US) is vital to the freedom of a nation.
1 posted on 01/11/2006 12:56:38 AM PST by Dundee
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To: Dundee
For some reason, the far-left in Oz really want a Bill of Rights. While I am very familiar with the US system, I think we have done quite well so far without it and I think freedom here is just as strong or stronger than the USA.
2 posted on 01/11/2006 1:16:10 AM PST by Aussiebabe
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To: Aussiebabe

Agreed.


3 posted on 01/11/2006 1:42:51 AM PST by Fair Go
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To: Dundee

They have courts in Australia? I'm going to have to start getting out more. I think all of this dust is getting to me.


4 posted on 01/11/2006 1:58:13 AM PST by KarinG1 (Some of us are trying to engage in philosophical discourse. Please don't allow us to interrupt you.)
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To: Dundee

Judicial activism certainly is a fiasco, and the Aussies are wise to fight shy of it.

The Supreme Court has become a deadly danger to America. They can abolish private property. They have signed off on murder for decades. Only now is it beginning to be moderated - but allowing the court to abrogate to itself the right to interpret the constitution has nearly destroyed the US. The power to interpret the constitution should be formally claimed by Congress!


5 posted on 01/11/2006 2:34:06 AM PST by agere_contra
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To: Aussiebabe
The thing is, we wouldn't get a US style Bill of Rights here - if we did, though I don't think we need one, I'd be less worried.

But what we would probably get is a Bill of Rights which enshrined Free Health Care, Free University Education, Gay Marriage - all sorts of things like that.

I think matters like those should be kept out of the Constitution. If a democratically elected government can get support for them - well, I can live with that, even if I don't like it - but not in the Constitution.

6 posted on 01/11/2006 2:42:36 AM PST by naturalman1975 (Sure, give peace a chance - but si vis pacem, para bellum.)
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To: Dundee
It's only as good as the people who draft it.

Ours was drafted by brilliant men operating in good faith, and doing their level best to build a country that would stand the test of time.

Name for me a single politician of any renown, on either the right or left, in America or Australia, who you would trust to be involved in drafting a new 'bill of rights'.

I didn't think so....me neither.

7 posted on 01/11/2006 3:00:21 AM PST by tcostell
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To: Dundee

The LAST thing Australia needs is a Bill of Rights.

Imagine what the Left could do with that - and US!


8 posted on 01/11/2006 3:01:51 AM PST by Aussie Dasher (The Great Ronald Reagan & John Paul II - Heaven's Dream Team!)
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To: Dundee
The Bill of Rights in the United States Constitution was controversial; Alexander Hamilton, for instance, was against its inclusion:

I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and in the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers which are not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colourable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do? Why for instance, should it be said, that the liberty of the press shall not be restrained, when no power is given by which restrictions may be imposed? I will not contend that such a provision would confer a regulating power; but it is evident that it would furnish, to men disposed to usurp, a plausible pretence for claiming that power. They might urge with a semblance of reason, that the constitution ought not to be charged with the absurdity of providing against the abuse of an authority, which was not given, and that the provision against restraining the liberty of the press afforded a clear implication, that a power to prescribe proper regulations concerning it, was intended to be vested in the national government. This may serve as a specimen of the numerous handles which would be given to the doctrine of constructive powers, by the indulgence of an injudicious zeal for bills of rights. (Alexander Hamilton, Federalist, no. 84, 575--81)


9 posted on 01/11/2006 3:16:55 AM PST by snowsislander
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To: Dundee

The problem isn't the Bill of Rights. Rather, it's lifetime terms for judges, and a very weak method of disposing of bad judges.


10 posted on 01/11/2006 3:28:27 AM PST by muawiyah (-)
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To: muawiyah

That's a great read, thanks for posting it. I think I'll move to Australia when Hillary becomes President.


11 posted on 01/11/2006 3:40:04 AM PST by pkmaine
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To: Dundee
Whatever that document was once designed to do, today it gives Supreme Court judges the power to socially engineer America as they see fit.

You know it's bad when the Australians understand the problem better than American liberals. But it's not that the document gives the judges the power, it's that the judges have completely ignored what is written in the document.

12 posted on 01/11/2006 3:44:13 AM PST by libertylover (Bush spied. Terrorists died.)
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To: Dundee
Amazing isn't it? Despite America's claim as a thriving democracy, elite lawyers who will never face a ballot box in their life can change the nation with one knock of the gavel.

That's because WE ARE A REPUBLIC, NOT A DEMOCRACY YOU MORON!

13 posted on 01/11/2006 3:46:47 AM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me the way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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To: muawiyah
Yeah, like "electing judges" would really make things better.

Appointment a la the Federal Reserve might be an improvement.

14 posted on 01/11/2006 3:47:52 AM PST by Clemenza (Smartest words ever written by a Communist: "Show me the way to the next Whiskey Bar")
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To: naturalman1975
I think matters like those should be kept out of the Constitution.

So did the U.S. founding fathers who intended to leave these things to the legislators, i.e., the people's representatives, but modern day judges ignore the words written in the Constitution and make up their own laws, e.g., a right to sodomy.

15 posted on 01/11/2006 3:49:31 AM PST by libertylover (Bush spied. Terrorists died.)
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To: Dundee
Great read. It's almost heresy for an American to think that any country shouldn't have a Bill of Rights, but apparently, it isn't as indispensable as I might have thought. It is also painful to realize that the BoR could be near the source of so many of our political abuses, but the author makes some good points.
16 posted on 01/11/2006 3:51:27 AM PST by Teacher317
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To: Dundee

If one could get an honest answer out of todays Dems, they would admit that they care little or nothing for the basic concepts of the U.S. constitution. If they can circumvent it or invent some new "right" never intended by the founders, they will. Their favorite phrase for it is "a living constitution" i.e. a constitution what five liberal judges say it is...depending on the liberal zeitgeist of the moment.


17 posted on 01/11/2006 4:05:44 AM PST by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: snowsislander

Alexander Hamilton was an elitist, who didn't really care about the rights of the average citizen, so that would be his view. Instead, I'm with Jefferson on this one; a Bill of Rights was necessary to draw a line that governments couldn't cross. Without it, the U.S. would probably look similar to Europe with its disdain for individual rights. Some of European laws, especially the ones banning "hate speech" and individual religious expression, would be struck down as unconstitutional in America.


18 posted on 01/11/2006 4:57:46 AM PST by Accygirl
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To: tcostell

Actually, this is scary. Our constitution is only as good NOT as the drafters who wrote it, but as the people we now put in place to interpret it.

We should want weak people with limited desire for power, people who are scared to make waves, people who just want to do their job and go home -- that's the kind of judges we need.

What we get now instead are superstars, brilliant people who are ambitious, proud, and self-assured. Those types of people tend to think they know better than the rest of us, probably have contempt for politicians and the political process, and are very much in danger of being swayed to doing the "right" thing rather than the constitutional thing.

After all, they are the really smart ones, and are smart enough to know what is best for the rest of us.

Just some thoughts I had. But it is clear that the constitution isn't worth the paper it is written on if the judges take for themselves the power to re-write it to fit our "modern" times.


19 posted on 01/11/2006 5:57:50 AM PST by CharlesWayneCT
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