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Not Out Of Africa But Regional Continuity
The Bradshaw Foundation ^ | Alan Thorne

Posted on 12/16/2005 11:03:02 AM PST by blam

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1 posted on 12/16/2005 11:03:06 AM PST by blam
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To: SunkenCiv
GGG Ping.

We've had numerous 'out-of-Africa' articles recently. Here's an alternative.

2 posted on 12/16/2005 11:04:42 AM PST by blam
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To: blam; FairOpinion; Ernest_at_the_Beach; StayAt HomeMother; 24Karet; 3AngelaD; asp1; ...
Thanks Blam! You know what I like. ;')

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

3 posted on 12/16/2005 11:15:49 AM PST by SunkenCiv ("In silence, and at night, the Conscience feels that life should soar to nobler ends than Power.")
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Good stuff ===> Placemarker <===
4 posted on 12/16/2005 11:25:09 AM PST by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: blam

I'm surprised no one has demagogued one of the key premises of "Out Of Africa" here, because in the wrong hands, the notion that those who did migrate were of greater intelligence and more adaptable, has an ugly flip side. And, that would be that those who did not migrate would of necessity be of lesser intelligence ... modern-day Africans.

Sounds quite racist, put into these terms, doesn't it?


5 posted on 12/16/2005 11:26:28 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry; SunkenCiv
"Sounds quite racist, put into these terms, doesn't it?"

The GGG group have had very few threads pulled and it is primarly because we leave those things 'un-said.'

6 posted on 12/16/2005 11:40:28 AM PST by blam
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To: blam

"The GGG group have had very few threads pulled and it is primarly because we leave those things 'un-said.'"

It is just surprising to me, that "Out Of Africa" has been so widely accepted, due to this implication. Beyond that, I'll leave it alone.


7 posted on 12/16/2005 11:45:54 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry
Seems to me that migration would be the product of competition for resources more than anything else..
Those who stayed had the resources, those who left went in search of their own..
Moving to a new, "uninhabited" area meant a reduced ( or non-existant ) need to compete for resources..
This alone would be an incentive for migration..
8 posted on 12/16/2005 1:00:29 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Drammach

"This alone would be an incentive for migration."

Could be plausible, but that is not what is posited in "Out Of Africa."


9 posted on 12/16/2005 1:02:13 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: blam; SunkenCiv
European Scientists have a big problem, namely Neanderthals. Thorne's opponents say that Cro-Magnons humans identical to us who lived during the Ice Age simply replaced Neanderthals with no intermingling. Thorne believes that intermingling did take place.

*************

Whew. For a few minutes, I was afraid I was going to have to abandon my newfound identity as a Neanderthal.

10 posted on 12/16/2005 1:06:14 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: RegulatorCountry; blam

Since mitochondrial DNA is inherited from the mother, the best explanation for the current situation would not deal with intelligence, but rather with the reproductive success of Eve, her daughters, granddaughters, great-granddaughters, etc.

This can be explained by their being more alluring and available than their female contemporaries, thus able to attract men able to father a large number of daughters by them and to provide the necessary alimony and child support.

The Bodacious African Slut Theory hypothesizes that we are all descended from a long line of the most horny and good-looking women.


11 posted on 12/16/2005 1:06:24 PM PST by Lessismore
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To: RegulatorCountry; blam
Link to an article: For anyone interested...

Origins of Modern Humans: Multiregional or Out of Africa? By Donald Johanson

Just reading through this article and taking into account the Toba eruption, and subsequent re-establishment of humankind, I can see possibilities of such an event and the resulting reduction/isolation of small populations resulting in drastic changes to society and behaviour..
Likewise, the "opportunities" for extended periods of introspection/contemplation concerning abstract concepts like "the meaning of life".. ( seriously.. the whole world goes dark and cold for 6 years, you're sitting in a cave trying to figure out how to keep warm by making your fire pit more efficient, and why this happened to you, of all people.. )
Resulting in use of art and symbolism, personal adornment, etc..
Again, more personal time to create specialized tools that allow more efficient utilization of time spent outdoors, ( in the cold ) gathering food.. ( find food, kill it / gather it, get back inside where the fire / warmth is.. )

Then there is the problem of inbreeding within small, close communities.. ( need for "trade" among communities includes women... new blood needed.. As well as trading locally available materials, or even ideas for survival.. )
Drastic changes in food resources, and the need to move to new areas to access them.. ( fishing becomes more common.. moving to seashore areas.. )

None of this seems to indicate any actual change in intellectual capacity however.. ( at least as I understood it..)
It seems to indicate a change in behaviour, which may have been caused by any number of influences, but from what I have read, the intellectual capacity was there for tens of thousands of years, then a sudden change is observed...
That indicates, at least to me, an outside influence..
Not so much a change in intellect, but in attitude..

Evidence is, man had the capacity for thought, but until something like Toba happened, intelligence was not considered as a desirable trait..
With survival suddenly on the line, ideas became a positive ( and necessary ) tool for survival..
Creativity and imagination became more than just an amusement..

Enough rambling thought for now..
Just my two cents..

12 posted on 12/16/2005 3:26:00 PM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Lessismore
Utter nonsense! All enlightened people know that we are aliens. This planet was colonized by extraterrestials looking to preserve their race by finding a habitable planet in the universe to support their kind. Do you really think that humans descended from the apes on this planet? Surely not. Nope, we are visited from time to time, and some of us are abducted to test to see how we are doing here. Pretty simple when you think it through. Some proof lies with all ancient civilizations that left clues to the 'gods' in their lives. How do you think religions got started?
13 posted on 12/16/2005 3:34:20 PM PST by plainspeaker (How many times will this dead horse be beaten?)
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To: blam
Some folks have long doubted the so called evidence for the out-of-Africa theory.

They argue that the greater age of finds in Africa are not proof of older populations. The finds are the results of the site specific, more favorable, geographical, and environmental, conditions, for finds to survive, and then to be found.

Hot and very dry conditions yield more surviving organic materials, and better, finds, than similar materials existing for the same, or some other span of time, in less favorable conditions, such as warm and wet.

The distribution of the finds possible world wide is going to favor the places where materials will survive best, and longest.

That means that the ancient populations distributions cannot be accurately tied to individual finds in a specific time context.

I'm not putting down the out-of-Africa model, I could just never get past the sample distribution time problem.

Even though the sample/data base for very ancient materials remains relatively thin, compared to more avaliable, more modern, populations, it is important to remember that this data base is now the largest and most detailed that has ever existed up till now in history.

Truth is all I seek, no matter where it leads.

I just doubt it leads out of Africa, at the moment.
14 posted on 12/16/2005 3:59:39 PM PST by porkchops 4 mahound ("Si vis pacem, para bellum", If you wish peace, prepare for war.)
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To: Drammach
"Enough rambling thought for now.. Just my two cents.."

Thanks.

My thoughts are that the only survivors would have been in the warmer areas on the earth...all others probably would have died.

15 posted on 12/16/2005 4:06:17 PM PST by blam
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To: porkchops 4 mahound
"Hot and very dry conditions yield more surviving organic materials, and better, finds, than similar materials existing for the same, or some other span of time, in less favorable conditions, such as warm and wet."

That's one of my complaints too.

The soil is so acidic around here that people buried in cemeteries in the mid-1800's are no longer there...there's nothing underground above their gravestones and the gravestones themselves are etched away to almost nothing. Not a good area to go looking for fossils here.

16 posted on 12/16/2005 4:14:16 PM PST by blam
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To: Drammach

"With survival suddenly on the line, ideas became a positive ( and necessary ) tool for survival."

Famine has propelled many an exodus and diaspora, even in relatively recent history. The Irish spring to mind.

I've seen self-selection, by virtue of willingness to migrate, put forth as an explanation for a number of things over the years. Take, for instance, the supposition of a more dynamic, adventurous, inventive and productive society in the United States, in comparison to "old" Europe. But, much of this can be explained, in my opinion, by a form of (classical) liberal governance that encouraged dynamism and inventiveness, rather than anything inherent in the people themselves.


17 posted on 12/16/2005 4:32:26 PM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: trisham

Whew. That was close. ;')


18 posted on 12/16/2005 10:18:46 PM PST by SunkenCiv ("In silence, and at night, the Conscience feels that life should soar to nobler ends than Power.")
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To: plainspeaker
Utter nonsense! All enlightened people know that we are aliens.

A propensity to flat feet, need for sunglasses, and especially sunburn, among other anomolies, all mitigate to us originating under a far friedlier sun, and on lower gravity planet.

Ship wrecked.

19 posted on 12/17/2005 12:35:52 AM PST by ApplegateRanch (Islam: a Satanically Transmitted Disease, spread by unprotected intimate contact with the Koranus.)
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To: Lessismore
"Since mitochondrial DNA is inherited from the mother..."

Is it?

Fathers can be influential too

Mitochondrial DNA recombines

Linkage disequilibrium and recombination in hominid mitochondrial DNA

Still apparently much debated, many articles online.

20 posted on 12/17/2005 12:46:59 AM PST by gnarledmaw (I traded freedom for security and all I got were these damned shackles.)
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