Posted on 12/13/2005 6:49:06 AM PST by Willie Green
PARIS (Reuters) - China surpassed the United States as the world's top exporter of laptop computers, mobile phones and other information and communications technology devices in 2004, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development said on Monday.
China exported $180 billion worth of so-called ICT goods in 2004, compared with U.S. exports of $149 billion, the OECD, a free-market agency funded by 30 countries, said.
OECD officials said that China was likely to take top spot in 2005 too, but hard proof would take many months to collect.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
I'm saying, put your money where your mouth is. I give NO money to Linux development.
In fact, I'm a technology mooch, hogging bandwidth from these companies to download sofware for myself.
I don't pay software companies that send jobs to China.
Do you own anything that wasn't Made in USA?
Do you own anything that was?
Absolutely. Never owned a foreign car either. Won't rent one if I can avoid it.
See if you can stop avoiding the question. Do you own anything that was made outside of the USA?
Yep, a Sony television. Aren't practically all TV'S made overseas now? It's not really like I had any choice was it. At least it wasn't made in China.
Well, now, that wasn't too hard, was it? Did you know that the primary design center for Sony TVs is in.....San Diego, California? Good for you! You are supporting a Japanese company with high-paying jobs in Sunny Southern California, and low cost manufacturing in China! I've been to the original Sony TV plant in Osaka, and it looks like any 1970's factory you might see in Detroit....past its prime. And if you think you've got a disdain for all things chinese, there is no more vicious racial hatred between two races than the chinese and the japs! Wow! Would David Duke-san fit in over there!
Aren't practically all TV'S made overseas now?
Well, I think you could make the case that ALL TVs are "manufactured" overseas. But did you also know that RCA, purchased by Thomson (a digusting bunch of Frenchmen!) actually still has a critical TV design center in....INDIANAPOLIS! Sharp has a plant in Spain. And guess what, korean, japanese, chinese and taiwanese almost exclusively use semiconductors that were assembled in malaysia or thailand, and designed in california. The only two serious players in the world for chip design EDA: Mentor and Cadence (they're American.) Most of the TTL chips that vaulted Texas Instruments in the 70's to be able to get where they are now: were made in malaysia, designed in Dallas, TX.
So you can say that no TVs are "made" in the USA, but the USA is such an integral part of every single TV component, it is really not possible to construct a TV without any high-value USA components.
It's not really like I had any choice was it.
Which again, FRiend, is exactly correct! The world cannot exist without the USA, and the USA can't have a cheep plastic TV without the rest of the world.
I, like you, was a little apprehensive about my own job, my friends' jobs and my kids' future jobs because of China. So I went to go see what the heck the fuss was about. I can't do anything to lessen your fears of China, and you couldn't have allayed my fears before I went, either. But having been there, and having seen specifically my business up close, I am more confident than ever that the dhimmicrats are far more dangerous than Asia is. For one thing, the Koreans, Chinese, Japanese and Taiwanese are totally fractured and at each other's throats....whereas the dhimmicrats are united to destroy the USA and American Industry** asap.
-I- am not your enemy. We both want to defend the fort....but mister....there is a fire to fight INSIDE the fort. People that want to tax and regulate the entire place into the ground and rewrite the Constitution. There are lots of DUers among us, and they don't like you, me, or China.
**Just wait until environmentalists find out what kind of horrifically toxic chemicals are used in the semiconductor industry.....they'll banish Intel and AMD over the border post haste.
but the USA is such an integral part of every single TV component, it is really not possible to construct a TV without any high-value USA components.
If there are 500 components in a TV Bill-of-Materials, and ONE component is unavailable....that TV (or PC, or phone or whatever) doesn't ship. Many components are fungible, but the high value ASIC stuff is most often not.
Taken to some future extreme, a war in the pacific means Americans won't be able to buy TVs, and it means China won't be able to eat.
"At least it wasn't made in China."
Spin, spin, spin. I guess having a boob-tube is more important to you than American jobs.
You could have at least bought used, that way you wouldn't be pumping any new capital into a company that makes foreign clones of an American product. Sheesh.
Yeah I know a lot of Sony design and manufacturing is done in the USA, in fact this new TV I have is rumored to be assembled here in the states but I don't have a need to prove it. What you're trying to do is put China in with others like Japan that are actual allies of the US. China is no ally of the US, they have nuclear missles pointed at US, generals threatening to nuke California, and many ongoing spy operations at this very moment that are surprisingly being reported in the news. There is almost nothing in common between Japan and China, don't act like there is.
Don't act like you give a flip, Mr. one of the most important things in my life is a commie clone of software.
My name is not "Mr. one", but thank you for the compliment. It would be capitalized if it were that, anyway.
And, I like how "commie clones" of software is important to you, but funding ChiCom technology with your own money isn't.
P.S. I didn't invest in China when I got my software.
We know, you're one of those free software moonies from Richard Stallman's website, that believe all software should be free and everyone taxed for it. You spend hours on here reminding us all, you like systems like communism where stuff is provided to you, you and don't have to ever pay for anything, you don't have to keep repeating yourself.
What I'm trying to do is to remind you how hollow your "boycott China" concept is. Your "American TV" has a large content of Chinese components....get over it! 100% of DLP projection TV's (Korean, Chinese, Japanese, European) have the most critical part made and profited to: Texas Instruments. If you had saved the manufacturing jobs in Dallas that were lost to Malaysia in the 80s, then TI wouldn't have had the money that they innovated the DLP with today.
And don't get carried away by the Japanese "allies." France was our ally until the USSR dissolved. Japan will be our ally until the CCP is dissolved.
And you need to understand the difference between "China" and the CCP. When the CCP falls, cheap chinese labor will still exist, and then what will you rail against?
I'm loving watching you slowly going off the deep end, unable to reconcile your own diametrically opposed positions with one another. You like being more pro-American than everybody else, but it just burns you to admit that you fund the commies with your software purchases and I don't.
Now, when you're REALLY getting a good whiff of your own crap, you try to distract by posting little penguins.
It's easier to do that than to admit you're wrong and stop supporting Chinese tech investment. You do a lot of nationalist chest-pounding on here, but when you're challenged to put your money where your mouth is, all you can do is post penguin pictures and scream, "Stallman is a commie!".
And if I'm repeating myself, it's only because you're not answering me. How do you justify accusing me of being pro-commie when you fund technology for the Chinese and I don't?
When China quits targeting the US with nuclear missles, quits spying on us and attacking our computers over the internet, quits killing Christians, and otherwise quit acting like communist barbarians, yes, Oi might consider them equal trading partners to Japan.
Since you were claiming the only remaining US advantage was in us owning the standards or designs, how is this preventing China from building to these US design standards royalty free?
http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/3571216
http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000023
Point that claim out, exactly. You will find that I claimed, in very simple language, that the standards are being set and innovated in the West because the Chinese culture does not encourage innovation. It does not seem that you appreciate the difference between "owning" IP and "owning" the process of IP creation.
Patents don't protect anything. They give a legal standing to sue on. The Chinese (with or without the CCP) do not respect rule of law, so "IP ownership" the way you talk about it is meaningless. It would not matter if the Chinese copied our Constitution and proclaimed a free China tomorrow....they do not respect the rule of law and thus IP ownership is meaningless to them.
The Power/Sparc cores don't give them anything they couldn't have already stolen from ARM. IBM and Sun's decisions are capitulation to having lost in the marketplace. And yet, even when they've paid for x86 or ARM cores, name a single product/environment that the Chinese have innovated and dumped on the market such as the iPod+iTunes, rather than just knocking off generic MP3 player hardware?
Where is a single Chinese processor architecture concept? The Western failures of Power and the ancient Sparc dwarf anything the chinese have currently developed....or even have the capability of launching. Where is a chinese RAM interface? Where is a chinese digital video modulation standard?
Yet you think they've "blown past" America in technology. Sorry. Not true. Not with technology (military or civilian), culture, society, or even government.
Yes, even the US government is less corrupt and more efficient than the CCP.
It does not seem that you appreciate the difference between "owning" IP and "owning" the process of IP creation.
I understand one is tangible and measurable and the other one is a theory. You claim the U.S. is superior and will remain so, but that is only a hypothesis. What we do know, based on measurements of fact, is that China's overall tech exports just grew at a 50%/year pace and blew past the U.S. like a motorboat passed driftwood.
Patents don't protect anything. They give a legal standing to sue on.
No kidding, I was pointing this out to you from the beginning, remember?
The Chinese (with or without the CCP) do not respect rule of law, so "IP ownership" the way you talk about it is meaningless.
Yeah I know, I already pointed this out to you. "possession is 9/10's". Ring a bell?
The Power/Sparc cores don't give them anything they couldn't have already stolen from ARM.
Why are you equating stealing something to being legally given it for free? That's not reality, is it? Especially when China is part of the WTO, and obligated to respect IP as rights to membership. There's a HUGE difference in between having to steal something, and having them hand it to you on a silver platter. In fact, they're practical polar opposites.
IBM and Sun's decisions are capitulation to having lost in the marketplace.
Power hasn't lost in the marketplace, by a long shot. Ever heard of an XBOX 360 or Playstation 3? Power chips are dominating that market. Power chips are running the current Apple computers, are you calling that junk? How about the IBM pro workstations and servers running power? Worthless? Hardly. But yet they give the rights to the designs away for free.
name a single product/environment that the Chinese have innovated and dumped on the market
This is your best argument, but as I keep pointing out it's quickly becoming obsolete since we give them our latest designs for free. Why are we doing this? What are the advantages, if you want to maintain your competitive advantage, to give your protective copyright on the resultant works away for free? I can tell you why. Because it's not worth anything to them at any higher price.
Yet you think they've "blown past" America in technology. Sorry. Not true.
They have in capacity, without a doubt, and will only leave us farther behind. You've already stated you think the jobs at Walmart are better for the U.S. than jobs building things, but even that's a dead end when you don't have any shoppers at Walmart. And why will there be any shoppers, when they've given their designs, which is all they had left, away for free?
I am eager to have a discussion about different viewpoints.
But since your view is already correct and superior to all, you have no need for my miniscule commentary. Your arguments are on all points correct, coming from an omniscient point of view, and I apologize for offering any alternative. You own the thread.
Turn the light off when you leave.
You're right, I don't leave wiggle room, in a straightforward discussion. Thanks for being honest, and not resorting to name calling and insults like those from others.
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