Posted on 11/22/2005 7:11:21 AM PST by nckerr
Fascinating. I have often thought intuitively that the megachurch and compassionate conservatism fit together quite nicely...but the example you give is very concrete.
Don't look for the megachurch crowd to want to reign in spending. This is GWB's primary constituency, it seems to me.
(And in terms of November elections, I am grateful for them...though I don't approve of their theology!)
Are you rejecting the whole fish because of a few small bones?
Or perhaps you need to be in another congregation that meets your needs better?
I agree with you. The part I thought was interesting is people saying that what was really important in these mega churches is the small groups... Yet they reject small churches. Protestant churches have been having small group bible studies my entire life. The "saddlecreek" method is just slick marketing.
(He writes pop psychology books and get rich junk. You are not helping new Christians or bringing in the unsaved by saying that Christ is simply another way to get along in the world. "I have overcome the world".)
God talks all thru the Bible about making Christians prosperous. One scripture actually says "You have not becasue you asked not" and another says Christ came so we can live life and live it more abundantly.
I do agree with the fact that you do have evangelist who ask for money 90% of their program and preach 10%. I do not agree with that either. But others like Pastor Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyers have great services about all different topics.
You will always find stuff on the net about why this person is bad etc. But, the good ministries have an independant financial accountablitiy firm and other measures in place to combat corruption.
I saw that clip. He introduced her and rattled off some of her accomplishments and she proceeded to stand and get an ovation from the audience. That told me all I needed to know about Joel and his church.
Very true... yet in Ezra he commanded the men of Israel at that time to divorce their wives. Go figure....
Preaching, teaching, and discipling are all different.
Preaching is required for the unsaved to hear and they must hear to believe.
Most Sunday services are heavy in preaching, have some teaching, but not much for discipling. Midweek classes are normally just the opposite. There is a place for each.
Again, I have no comment on anyone's particular situation. I just think pastor's should preach the word unapologetically. Let the chips then fall where they may. Interstingly, notice that if you do that, that the temptation to try to judge/compromise/calculate goes away. Just stay on the script. Let God do the rest.
That is, however, a pretty strong drink. Most pastors would be terrified of the Biblical text without their moderating commentary. I think that is a big mistake.
As an aside, in a previous post someone said that there were good reasons to divorce, then I posted that God hates divorce. As for me and my house, If I am going to err, I am going to err on what Scripture says, rather than with what my personal feelings about the matter might be and no matter how much it hurts.
I am not judging mega churches, merely saying that people need to really study what they are trying to do, and what they actually teach. Some are cults, some don't even teach the Bible, some are there for entertainment purposes only, and some are merely blindly following other successful pastors by growing numbers, not winning souls. I never accept teaching until I have fully researched it. The person who earlier said that they "felt like it was a cult" experienced what we refer to as discernment.
As I said I don't go to a mega church. I reject any church that doesn't answer to God and preach the gospel.
If the mega church does that great. Again, purely from observation the mega churches don't.
Good point. For the first time, in 2004, I saw voter registration tables set up at church.
The small group dynamic works just the way Jesus intended. Mega churches realized a long time ago that they must rely on these small groups to multiply God's kingdom. Some smaller churches tend to to ignore this.
Didn't Jesus and Paul warn us about those who would come along and make merchandise of the flock, and who wouldn't preach sound doctrine, but that which tickled the ears of listeners? Joel Osteen can't even articulate the Gospel to Larry King, and Rick Warren uses whatever poor translation of the Bible suits his purposes at any given moment. Christians should steer clear of these shallow types.
You must be younger than me - I remember "voter guides" and registrations in the 70's and 80's at the Baptist church where I grew up. All part of Falwell's Moral Majority as I recall.
You're confused, my friend. Getting kids plugged into youth groups, etc., has absolutely NOTHING to do with replacing mom or dad or both. Nothing. Zip, nada, zilch to do with it.
I'll explain further, but you seem intelligent enough that I shouldn't have to.
We left.
BINGO! Paper thin theology. Isn't spreading the word of Christ and the plan of salvation supposed to be one of the purposes of a Christian's life? Scarey, but predictable if you read the book of Revelation and the state of the church during Christ's return.
"Excuse me?? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps she just escaped an abusive husband? Do you know how hard it can be to leave an abusive marriage?? Do you have any idea who she is or where she has been??
Maybe you shouldn't judge her or the pastor, since you do not know either of them.
I feel better now."
My point was only that objectively it is harder to pass on the faith without a father in the house. The is objectively true. Even more so in the instance where she flees an abusive husband/father. How is the child ever going to learn of the true Father without an earthly father? It happens for sure, but it is much more difficult. That is pretty non-controversial.
I have issued no judgment on her particular situation and am not willing to speculate on her particulars. I am just making the point that fathers are important. And then pointing out that hardly a megachurch out there will defend that Biblical premise. Because the moment they do, they will lose half their congregation.
Even so, it remains the truth.
If churches spent more time on preparing young people for Biblical (ie lifelong) marriage, on discipling married couples with or without kids, and then preaching the truth of Scripture from the pulpit, including terrifying truths such as God hates divorce, then...and only then...will you see a true multi-generational sustaining of the faith. That is the Biblical methodology and we ignore it at our peril. Defense of the Biblical methodology has nothing to do with condemnation of a particular person's broken family situation. (And just as an aside, obviously the church should step into these broken situations on a case by case basis and minister to broken homes....but I would dare anyone in a megachurch small group to suggest that they adopt a widow or an orphan...that small group is going to disband lickety split).
I agree. I don't want to dog these people but when I see these 'mega' church preachers on TV they are amazingly unable to defend the faith.
They really seem to be caught up with church growth and book sales. And the books they are pushing are long on psycho babble and short on Christ.
Again, the idea the Christ came to make us rich is and horrible misreading of the scriptures. You can't serve two masters.
Some are cults, some don't even teach the Bible, some are there for entertainment purposes only, and some are merely blindly following other successful pastors by growing numbers, not winning souls. I never accept teaching until I have fully researched it. The person who earlier said that they "felt like it was a cult" experienced what we refer to as discernment.
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Yes! Exactly. Not all "mega churches" are like that, but most seem to be. Even many smaller churches are trying to follow the lead because of the numbers.
The further from the Bible you get, the further from Christ you get and the more in trouble you get.
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