America Prediscovered

The Times (UK) ^ | 11-21-2005 | Norman Hammond

[Alter Kaker]

By todays standards there were very few nice guys back then.

That's simply inaccurate. Columbus was an individual with enormous character flaws -- he was not merely a product of his times. That's one of the reasons he was brought back to Spain in chains. I'm not trying to detract from the significance of his discovery, but he was not a good man by any stretch.

[Alter Kaker]

I would add that I think it's beyond clear that the man was a certifiable genius.

[bastantebueno55]

I'm not really sure you can see the conquest of the New World as just a continuation of the Reconquista. They were distinctly separate events.

While you are right that they are distinct events, the fact is that with the fall of Granada in 1492 and the complete restoration of Roman Catholic hegemony in Iberia, the discovery of new lands populated by unevangelized heathen provided a convenient target for the religiously zealous, combined with the fact that the battle-hardened military leaders had a new area to focus on and a new place to carry on their adventures. It may be more accurate to say that the conquest of America was driven by the twin forces of religious zeal and desire to extend the economic empire, but the completion of the reconquest of Spain and the end of battling the Moorish infidel freed up military resources to go in a new direction.

[bastantebueno55]

While I was composing my response to Alter Kaker (see post #23), you beat me to the punch and said basically the same thing. I think we are in agreement.

[commonasdirt]

Not too long ago I read a story....sort of alternate history of what might have happened if Columbus had made nice with the natives. In the story he stays longer, explores more, keeps an open mind, is gone for years and when he goes back to Spain it is leading an armada of hundreds of well armed ships manned by North American and Central American locals. To say that the Spanish were impressed woud be an understatement. LOL. Story ended at that point but you knew the next page would have been them conquering Spain. Great story for a flight of fancy, wish i could recall the author.

[TennesseeProfessor]

Was it PastWatch: The Redemption of Christopher Columbus by Orson Scott Card?

[Alter Kaker]

Story ended at that point but you knew the next page would have been them conquering Spain. Great story for a flight of fancy, wish i could recall the author.

More than slightly unrealistic, but remember that in 1492 Tenochtitlan was the largest city in the world, and the Aztec Empire the largest and richest, far larger than Spain.

[commonasdirt]

Yes. in the story he connected with first one, than another of large empires. Married local leaders daughter. Had a awakening of his own....and took it from there. Gave them technology and knowledge they did not have while using the best of what they had. Unrealistic? Oh yeah. But hey, it would not be entertaining science fiction if it were not somewhat unrealistic. I believe the driving force to his returning was his son who was left in the care of a monestary while he was away.

[commonasdirt]

BINGO......thanks....I will get it again.

[Vince Ferrer]

I'm not really sure you can see the conquest of the New World as just a continuation of the Reconquista. They were distinctly separate events.

I would say a little of both. We need to remember why Europeans of that age were sending explorers on dangerous missions of discovery. One of their big motivations was to find a sea route around the Muslim world to Asia, in order to re-establish trade with Asia. When they found, along with it, two new unaligned continents, they understood the importance to them of adding the new world to the Christian sphere.

[Thinkin' Gal]

Who discovered America... Who were the first Americans... Where did the name America come from...

The questions (and theories) are intruiging but what's even more interesting is...

Why all of the questions? Why is America the place that can't discern her origins, her native peoples, or her name? She's like an adopted child who is compelled to search for her birth mother.

Egads this reminds me of the book Are You my Mother?.

Hosea 1:9-11

9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

[Coyoteman]

Who discovered America... Who were the first Americans... Where did the name America come from...

The questions (and theories) are intruiging but what's even more interesting is...

Why all of the questions? Why is America the place that can't discern her origins, her native peoples, or her name?

Pretty good evidence that migrants from Siberia discovered America, so they are the first Americans. The question is when. There is evidence for an early pre-glacial migration Siberia to eastern US, perhaps 25,000 years ago or more.

Another migration appears to have followed the glaciers from the Indonesian area, to Japan, along the Aleutians and down the Pacific coast to South American some 15,000 years ago.

The next migration was the ice-free corridor through Canada some 12,000 years ago.

The far north peoples, Eskimos, came much later.

There is also evidence for a lot of other contacts, which had less effect.

As far as the name, I think that is pretty well established.

So, what was your question again? And more importantly, what is the source of your question?

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks Blam. I think you're right, a repeat. Heyerdahl noted that South American species of food plants -- which would die from salt water immersion during a "cork bob" trip -- are found on various small, isolated islands in the Pacific, and had to arrive by boat. Since it's obvious that people must also not have walked there, I wonder why his observation remains controversial.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)

[Jeremiah Jr]

The Chinese were the first red-men and they’re coming back.

[SunkenCiv]