Posted on 11/18/2005 1:39:54 PM PST by Jenny Hatch
So...what if a careful weighing of the facts concludes that the chemicals do in-fact produce the desired results?
I would like to strongly and respectfully disagree with your statement that "no compelling avidence [exists]. I am VERY compelled by 11 years of use. And I think you are misusing the adjective "toxic" in order to bolster your argument.
Why so many people seem to feel the need to proclaim that psychoactive drugs are "good" or "bad" is beyond me.
It seems perfectly obvious that they work well for many, do little for some, and drive others into suicidal/homicidal frenzies.
Just as we should probably expect when dealing with something as little understood as mental function.
As you say, they can literally be a lifesaver for many, and one drug may work for you when others do not, for no apparent reason. I've seen it in my own family.
5HTP is the next step up in the body's metabolism of the amino acid tryptophan. It became popular when Congress pass an unconstitutional law banning the sale of tryptophan itself. Freedom advocates (and FDA opponents) Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw have said for decades that serotonin, an important chemical produced in the brain, is a neurotransmitter considered essential for relaxation, concentration, sleep and calmness. Its lack or suppression can lead to severe mental disturbances and even violent behavior. To make serotonin the body requires sufficient levels of magnesium, tryptophan and vitamin B-6, nutrients which American diets are notoriously deficient in, but which medical doctors rarely run tests for -- even when they prescribe ritalin, Prozac or other medications which depend on adequate serotonin levels (which is often!), and even when just taking supplements for those missing nutrients may be all that is needed.
IF THE PRESCRIPTION MEDICATIONS DO NOT SUPPLY THE MISSING NUTRIENTS IN AN ABSORBABLE AND USABLE FORM, HOW IN HELL CAN THEY SAY THEY WOULD EVER ADDRESS A SEROTONIN IMBALANCE IF THERE'S NO SEROTONIN TO "RE-UPTAKE" IN THE FIRST PLACE?? Hmmmmmmmmm?????? Hellooooo????
Most American medical doctors have taken no more than 5 hours of nutrition classes in medical school if any at all (and most remain either blissfully or defiantly clueless about it), yet they are subjected to dozens and dozens of presentations by pharmaceutical company representatives on patent medications every year. So it should be no wonder why more and more people look elsewhere for advice on real nutrition.
BTW, there are about 200,000 deaths a year because of prescription (legal) drugs. This stat INCLUDES the homicides and suicides from serotonin re-uptake inhibiters and other so-called anti-depressives which depend on adequate serotonin levels.
ping for later
I've been feeling like I'm almost constantly under assault by the advertising community for many years. Constant bias and half truths cannot be good for us.
najida,
you said:
"For me,
SSRI's combined with DRB's, therapy etc have been life savers. I also see positive effects all the time in others with these meds.
They do work for major medical/clinical depression. For BPD they are being found to be the best and most effective treatment. Other methods of dealing with depression etc are like sneezing on a forest fire."
It is an interesting insight, because I was forced by the courts to take these drugs for fourteen months after I experienced a post partum psychosis. At the end of that time I was so suicidal I was ready to kill myself or get better.
Using nutritional therapies and herbs, and lately essential oils, I have been able to live a very high quality of life, and have not taken one psychiatric pill in over fifteen years.
Calling what I have done a sneeze on a forrest fire and comparing that to the duping of the public that I have just described seems just a tad close minded....
Did you even read the essay that started this thread? What do you have to say about the claim that these drugs have never been proven to work? Slick advertising and doping the public with little more than LSD is not "cure".
Jenny
I don't have to. I live it.
I have spent 60 years being an experimental animal in this research. I know exactly what works for me and what doesn't.
That is the only way something like this can be evaluated, because everyone is different.
Either you do not suffer from clinical depression and therefore don't believe it exists, or you have it and have not found an efective drug combination and thus are condemning them all for everyone.
So9
I personally don't have anything good to say about SSRI's because they only made things worse for me. But, anti-depressants are vital to many people and if SSRI's work for a few people then I am all in favor of them. Although, in my opinion, they definately should not be given to kids under any circumstances. Wellbutrin, however, is an absolute wonder drug as far as I am concerned.
The doctors put me on Paxil and all kinds of other crap for my bipolar disorder because they said I was "self-medicating" because I drank four or five beers each night. I tried it for awhile (and still felt like crap because I was gaining weight), until I missed a pill one day and got violently ill due to it. IMHO, that meant I was addicted and so I quit the pills on my own. Went back to drinking my beer each night. I tell them now..."Yeah right, you want me to quit drinking beer so you can put me on hard drugs? I think not!" The true answer to depression is to get off your butt and do something constructive, you will feel much better about your life.
My daughter is now taking Celexa, and boy howdy, she is such a different person. She is no longer a constant bottle of erupting rage. We can now stand to be in her presence and she in ours.
Ooops- sorry girls, don't mind me- I thought the title was "Santorum and Depression"- time to increase text size.
"And I think you are misusing the adjective "toxic" in order to bolster your argument."
I didn't come up with the word Toxic, Peter Breggin did...
http://www.breggin.com/
Check out his book, it is an excellent history lesson...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312113668/103-3792080-2587011?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance
And if you decide after 11 years of use, you want to try some of these more natural alternatives, you are going to have a heck of a time getting off that drug...
Check out this site for how to safely wean off of anti-d's
http://members.aol.com/atracyphd/warning.htm
Jenny
Define "proven to work." If people take them and get better, come off them and get worse, is that "proof"?
I have high blood pressure. It's taking a great deal of trial and error to get under control. Sometimes a patient has to go through dozens of medications to find the combo that does the trick. Sometimes the first one works. Sometimes a bit of diet and exercise takes care of it. That's as good as we can do with pharmacology in 2005.
If you say SSRI's are overprescribed and overhyped, I very much agree. If you say...soy milk and raisins will cure all cases clinical depression, I'm going to call you funny names.
Good Answer.. The Psychiatric Community thinks if you have more than 3 alcoholic beverages a week you are an *ALCOHOLIC* bunk! they want to getr people strung out on these so called anti-depressants where the Pharmecutical Industry make Billions.
This is why they have such a problem with *Marijuana* and the medicinal effects it has...
I like my wine and it helps what ails me..so be it...
"I prepare a shake every a.m of Soy Milk, Flax Oil, ALoe Vera, Blueberries and non fat yogurt it truly does wonders!
I also recommend a supplement FORMULA HGH I guarantee this is a miracle supplement."
This is very similar to my daily regimen, I also take a b-complex supplement called Super B, which I think is the finest b-complex on the market. Also pregnenalone which is a hormone balancer, as well as a mineral supplement.
It is all great, and better than that...IT WORKS!!
Jenny
"I've been feeling like I'm almost constantly under assault by the advertising community for many years. Constant bias and half truths cannot be good for us."
I agree with the final summation of the essay, this has been "unprecedented" in our society.
Jenny
>a constant bottle of erupting rage
I know what that's like.
Different drugs have different effects on people. Maybe the one you tried was not right for you. Some people swear by Paxil (or other ssri's) and some just think they're evil. I was lucky, the paxil really helped my panic disorder that I had been fighting alone for 20 years. To make a blanket statement like paxil is crap does a disservice to the people it can actually help!
so9
You said:
"I don't have to. I live it.
I have spent 60 years being an experimental animal in this research. I know exactly what works for me and what doesn't.
That is the only way something like this can be evaluated, because everyone is different.
Either you do not suffer from clinical depression and therefore don't believe it exists, or you have it and have not found an efective drug combination and thus are condemning them all for everyone.
So9"
I have suffered from mental illness; psychosis, suicidal depression, and mania. I was diagnosed manic depressive in 89 and informed I would be on Lithium for the rest of my life.
I have great compassion for the mentally ill, and I don't want anyone to feel attacked or flamed in a thread I start.
You don't feel the need to prove efficacy beyond symptom relief, and neither does the pharmacuetical companies. And that is fine, but I think we owe it to our society to share that fact with future patients. If the doctors had the guts to say to everyone, "hey, these drugs are little more than LSD chemically, and if you want to take them to stop whatever emotional pain you are experiencing, just let us know" I might have some respect for them.
But the fact that they have dumped this chemical imbalance theory on the public with no proof, and we have all of this disinformation going on is what makes me angry. I also have a real problem with people being forcibly drugged, which is what happened to me. If someone like yourself wants to take these drugs, I say, great take them and get all the symptom relief you want. But do not force me to take them when I want to try some alternatives.
Here is a link to an article that talks about the chemistry of anti-depressants, which are little more than PCP and LSD...
http://www.drugawareness.org/Ribbon/SSRIMeds.html
Jenny
You might, but I would have less respect for them. The fact that two substances are chemically alike, or even that they work in similar ways , speaks not one bit to their effectiveness or safety in a clinical use. In fact, deadly poisons are used routinely and to good effect in medicine.
Botulism toxin comes to mind.
Well, just be thankful you still have your mother and put up with her the best you can.:)
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