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Sept. 2004: Bush vs. The CIA (What PlameGate is Really All About)
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/robertnovak/2004/09/27/13146.html ^ | 9-27-04 | Robert Novak

Posted on 10/28/2005 9:47:23 AM PDT by The Old Hoosier

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To: Suzy Quzy

Novak hates everyone in this administration. He didn't want us to get Saddam so I'm sure he is gloating.


21 posted on 10/28/2005 10:19:50 AM PDT by OldFriend (G-D IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION)
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To: The Old Hoosier
this article is over a year old. Where is the civil war predicted by the CIA?

Their attempt to decapitate this administration should be met w/ a purge to make Stalin envious.

22 posted on 10/28/2005 10:28:12 AM PDT by Pietro
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To: The Old Hoosier
Pillar said he and his colleagues concluded early in the Bush administration that military intervention in Iraq would intensify anti-American hostility throughout Islam.

Great. Even if true this is hardly an argument against the war as executed. A lot of things would intensify anti-American hostility throughout Islam. If we used that as a limit - our foreign and defense policy would be totally handcuffed.

23 posted on 10/28/2005 10:31:10 AM PDT by Wally_Kalbacken
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To: The Old Hoosier
...said he and his colleagues concluded early in the Bush administration that military intervention in Iraq would intensify anti-American hostility throughout Islam.

Novak does not make clear some very important issues, if this undermining of the nation even made these issues clear. I have underlined the sections needing expansion above.

First underline:
What is "early in the Bush administration"?

Pre 9/11 when Iraq was still violating UN sanctions? After 9/11, but prior to Afghanistan being invaded? Post Afghanistan?

If the first or the later, we can only say "Well, duh, what idiot couldn't make a general statement like that a probability?

If the second, it is saying that while invading Afghanistan might be understood by a few moderate Muslims, that number would diminish if Iraq had to be invaded as well.

In other words, if we had 8% well-wishers in the Muslim world and 62% hard line muslims that hated us from time immemorial, that the 30% balance (moderates) that would have dropped to 20% after Afghanistan, might drop further to 15% if we through out Saddam by invasion and rebuilding.

This is the sort of stupid assessment that Zogby could be hired to produce, not our Central Intelligence Agency, and if true or valid, why would it even matter in decision making where protection of our nation must be the sole principle criteria?

.

Now let's get to the second thing, underlined area number two:
Why is the Muslim worlds general regard or hostility worth evaluating? Was a general middle east war a serious threat? No, it can't be that.

It must be that CIA liberals, uncowed by their director at the time, considered our popularity more important than our ultimate protection.

What????????? Image rather than security? Didn't they understand that Clinton had left office? It is hardly surprising in light of todays events where we show Democrat lies or incompetence and we have leftists saying it must be Bush who must pay.

These people in government just need to be cut away from the public teat, like the parasites they are.

Here is the last best proof that small government is best despite attempts by some to found a "new conservatism" that keeps our Federal branch large for their own plans.

24 posted on 10/28/2005 10:31:59 AM PDT by KC Burke (Men of intemperate minds can never be free....)
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To: No Longer Free State
"So here is what the CIA had been up to. Was Joe Wilson's mission likewise designed to publicly embarrass Bush?

Of course it is. The CIA has become a den of beurocrats who care more about maintaining their own butts in their cushy offices than they do about the interests of the country. Yes, I'm sure there are exceptions, and, yes, I really believe this."

I wonder how much corruption goes on at the CIA. Whenever you have an organization with that much power and that much secrecy, there are bound to be problems. If I was Goss I'd be hooking up every flunky at Langley to a lie detector. I actually hope they're just stupid and not malicious, of course, worst case scenario is that the CIA is both.
25 posted on 10/28/2005 10:39:21 AM PDT by khnyny (all glory is fleeting)
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To: CROSSHIGHWAYMAN

Nixon was brought down by the FBI in a similar operation.


26 posted on 10/28/2005 10:51:01 AM PDT by kublia khan (Absolute war brings total victory)
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To: Buckeye McFrog

Porter Goss is working on cleaining up the CIA.

The grand jury has been mostly leak-free, though.


27 posted on 10/28/2005 10:56:09 AM PDT by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: No Longer Free State

Yeah, I know. Fitzgerald, it appears to be another political hack.


28 posted on 10/28/2005 10:57:15 AM PDT by demlosers
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To: The Old Hoosier

When will Goss and the President make some of the real Leakers at CIA pay a price? It is time for this to stop and for the civilains at STATE and CIA to learn what the military in the Pentagon know...the government is run by the ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES of the PEOPLE of the United States.


29 posted on 10/28/2005 10:58:11 AM PDT by q_an_a
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To: demlosers

And I just went off on my moonbat dad. He's soo happy listening to Ms. Chrissy.


30 posted on 10/28/2005 10:58:33 AM PDT by demlosers
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To: q_an_a

Goss is being very quiet about his work there, talking to no one. There have just been a few leaks from the bad guys to the Wash Post, but that's mostly quieted down lately.


31 posted on 10/28/2005 11:06:30 AM PDT by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
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To: The Old Hoosier
Pillar said he and his colleagues concluded early in the Bush administration that military intervention in Iraq would intensify anti-American hostility throughout Islam.

Islam is hostile to any and all cultures which revere freedom and equality between men and women, therefore, the level of hostility should have had nothing to do with the decision to take down a despot.

Our biggest problem prior to invading Iraq was not hostility but a profound lack of respect. Our willingness to stand and die there has increased the respect factor. When you fear someone, it is very difficult to be hostile toward them.

32 posted on 10/28/2005 11:19:01 AM PDT by wayoverontheright (.)
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To: The Old Hoosier

And this is part of the reason Curt Weldon has said to get rid of anyone in the CIA at level GS-15 and above. Thank God the President has the Secret Service to protect him. He's got enough political enemies without having the US "Intelligence" Agency trying to set him up.


33 posted on 10/28/2005 11:21:48 AM PDT by SueRae
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To: The Old Hoosier
The GWOT sure seems to be a Bureaucrat's Turf War. Where's Wild Bill Donovan and a real CIA? There sure seems to be HUGE problems with intelligence and we have now been fighting this war longer then WWII. The War Department was right about the OSS and the CIA confirms all of the WAR Department's concerns .... I hope we haven't shot ourselves in both feet ....
34 posted on 10/28/2005 11:21:54 AM PDT by Yasotay
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To: The Old Hoosier

Does the CIA Now Have Carte Blanche to Undermine Presidents?
I would say YES, since during his presser, Mr. Fitzgerald clarified that he didn't investigate Wilson's motives, or Plame's motives, or the CIA's motives. If elements within the CIA decide to conduct a coordinated campaign to undermine a President with whom they disagree, it appears as if that President IS DEFENSELESS. As with the judges, there seem to be no checks and balances on the CIA.


Stanley Jackson
Lawton, Oklahoma


35 posted on 10/28/2005 2:21:56 PM PDT by Stajack
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To: Yasotay

Right after September 11th, I felt we needed a new organization like the OSS. Bureaucracies like the CIA can be totally useless in a true emergency. It's not too late. Some member of Congress could make the proposal. We need people who can take effective action against our enemies. Not people who whine over their careers.


36 posted on 10/28/2005 4:11:34 PM PDT by popdonnelly
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To: Wally_Kalbacken

Isn't this just another wonderful example of just how badly off the mark these CIA types are. You almost want to call the plays the opposite of what they advise. No wonder Bush dissed them. Instead of a civil war we have a constitutional democracy where even the insurgents are voting. Geees.


37 posted on 10/28/2005 4:17:20 PM PDT by dalight
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To: HOYA97

I don't think there was a CIA plot against the White House. I think there is an ideological opposition to the Bush Administration, which the Wilsons moved in.


38 posted on 10/28/2005 4:18:22 PM PDT by popdonnelly
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To: Suzy Quzy; Grampa Dave
Sadly, Comey the Deputy Atty General, appointed Fitzgerald to this investigation, and they are BEST FRIENDS.....and Comey is the one who gave Sandy Burglar a Slap on the Wrist for DESTROYING and Stealing Classified Docs.

Very interesting!

39 posted on 10/28/2005 4:24:04 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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To: The Bronze Titan
There is this:

Fitzgerald is no hack. He is doing a fabulous job of cleaning the Augean stables of Illinois politics.

40 posted on 10/28/2005 4:25:41 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (History is soon Forgotten,)
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