Posted on 10/10/2005 11:04:49 AM PDT by Anthem
President Bush recently suggested that the military be given broader powers to deal with domestic crises like Hurricane Katrina or a potential bird flu epidemic, but emergency response and security groups in the U.S. say the military already has the power it needs to provide both relief and protection to citizens, and question whether the president's real motives aren't political.
In mid-September, after Katrina and the subsequent civil disorder struck New Orleans, President Bush told the nation that the military should play a bigger role in such major domestic crises.
"It is now clear that a challenge on this scale requires greater federal authority and a broader role for the armed forces--the institution of our government most capable of massive logistical operations on a moment's notice," the president said, in an address to the nation from Jackson Square in New Orleans.
But relief groups doubt whether giving the military police power in emergency situations would really increase Americans' safety.
"With images of soldiers in New Orleans carrying M-16s but no medical or relief supplies fresh in the public memory, the president would still have us believe that a military response is the preferred response," said Mary Ellen McNish, general secretary for the American Friends Service Committee, in a statement on the Committee's Web site.
The Committee, which has worked in disaster areas and war zones for almost 90 years, says the military is no substitute for trained relief and reconstruction personnel and accused the president of chasing after more money for the Pentagon.
"Relief work cannot be a military add on. Public safety is too important to be used in a ploy to prop up ballooning military expenditures and a failed foreign policy of global dominance," McNish said.
"The answer is not to embed disaster response even more deeply in the 'war on terror' bureaucracy," she said.
Earlier this week, Bush asked Congress to review the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, which prohibits the armed forces from engaging in police-type work within U.S. borders.
"I'm concerned about what an avian flu outbreak could mean for the United States and the world," he said at a news conference in the Rose Garden on Tuesday.
"One option is the use of a military that's able to plan and move," he said. "So that's why I put it on the table. I think it's an important debate for Congress to have."
The World Health Organization reports that the avian flu virus, which has killed millions of birds, has claimed about 60 human lives.
While the disease has been limited to Asia so far, the Bush administration's top health official warned this week that an outbreak in the U.S. could cause anywhere from 100,000 to 2 million deaths, according to the New York Times, and President Bush said a military response could be needed in that case to enforce a quarantine of infected persons.
On Thursday, the U.S. senate added nearly $4 billion to a Pentagon spending bill to purchase vaccines for approximately half of the U.S. population.
The American Red Cross said it had not yet reviewed the implications of a change to Posse Comitatus and was not prepared to comment on it. However Jana Zehner, a spokesperson, said that the Red Cross was not dissatisfied with the response to Hurricane Katrina made by the police, National Guard, or the military.
Some security groups and military experts, for their part, have questioned what benefit granting the military domestic police powers could bring in responding to crises such as an avian flu pandemic.
"I cannot imagine U.S. troops surrounding a town where avian flu has broken out with fixed bayonets to prevent people from getting out of the town--that's just nuts," says retired army Lieutenant General, Robert G. Gard.
But Gard says the main argument against changing Posse Comitatus is that the military can already serve as police in domestic emergencies, although only in the gravest circumstances.
Under the current system, the military is allowed to offer all kinds of logistical support during domestic crises, but cannot engage in policing, says Gard, who is now the senior military fellow at the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation in Washington, D.C..
"The point that's often made about deploying troops in a time of disaster is that they have a good logistic capability to quickly deploy food, shelter, and supplies, and you can already do that," Gard says.
As a first recourse, when state and local police are overwhelmed, governors are able to deploy National Guard troops stationed in their state, or they can call in additional Guard personnel from neighboring states if their own troop levels are low (as they may be due to deployments overseas).
But in those rare cases when none of these security bodies are able to contain a problem, then the president--regardless of a governor's objections--may deploy federal troops to stop a breakdown in law and order, as permitted under the Insurrection Act.
"If you have a situation like New Orleans with chaos and looting--with insufficient local law enforcement to do the job--federal forces can be employed under the Insurrection Act," according to Gard.
In 1992 President George H. W. Bush invoked the Act by sending troops to Los Angeles to contain riots following the acquittal of police officers accused of the beating of Rodney King. Likewise, the current President Bush used the Act to override Possee Comitatus when he put armed, active duty troops in airports following 9-11.
Thus a weakening or removal of Possee Comitatus would not mean an increase in security as much as a change in command away from the states and to the president, Gard says.
Many security experts believe the Insurrection Act should remain a final option.
"The military should be involved in domestic problems as little as possible--as a last resort, not a first resort," says John Isaacs, President of Council for a Livable World, an arms control organization based in Washington, D.C.
"We have huge domestic security forces, the national guard and the reserves. They should be first priority."
Problems also arise when the military act as police, Isaacs says, since their training does not prepare them for policing--in fact, it prepares them for the opposite: combat.
The military, in all likelihood, wants no part of the job, says retired Lieutenant General Gard.
"The last thing the active army wants to get involved in is policing its own citizens," he said.
With governors, relief groups, security groups, and in all probability, the military itself against the idea of expanding its duties to include domestic police work, it seems that President Bush stands relatively alone in his recommendation for expanding military power.
Unable to find logic in Bush's purported reasons for requesting that Congress review Posse Comitatus, some observers, like General Gard, attribute more political motives to the president.
"He's trying to recover from the fact that there was a failure, both local and nationally, in responding to Katrina," Gard said.
We pause this thread for an Activist message. The House has passed HR 3132 The Child Safety Act, which unfortunately had a late amendment by Rep. Conyers (D) that is a Hate Crimes bill. Call your Senator on the phone and let them know you want this removed in conference. There is still time. HR 3132 is not yet scheduled for discussion in the Senate, but don't let them sneak it past us because we're not vigilant.
Here are related threads on FR.
H.R.3132 TITLE X--LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT HATE CRIMES PREVENTION
Hate-crime language doesn't belong in bill
Hate Crimes Amendment Passes House
VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE
Bush is dead wrong on this one.
This is a mistake. If I'm not mistaken, the Constitution says the country is not to have a national police force. Instead, the country should de-beaucracrotize and improve its current natural disaster relief organizations.
BINGO
Enough already with the power consolidation. I've had it.
This is the typical response of government to a crisis -- rearrange the structure of the government org chart, or, in other words, rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.
Something is wrong with a country's laws that allows a governor like Blanco to block aid.
People that are so worried about the military should be worried about other people.
New Orleans police taking your guns should be a bigger worry.
Blanco having the authority to order troops should be a worry.
People are up in arms about Bush and the military but are fine having the power rest with Nagin, Compass, and Blanco.
What is foreign terrorists were to attack a city. We can't use the military. No that would be against Blanco's wishes.
Why have a military then?
So we'll have military looters...
just kidding!
I trust the military a million times more than the corrupt New Orleans police.
How would you like it if you had to starve to death because Blanco was blocking the Red Cross from giving you aid.
How would you like it that the military can't stop New Orleans police from taking your guns.
How would you like it if you are a marine and get shot at and can't use law enforcement powers. You are a virtual sitting duck. You can't use the marines for search and rescue because they become sitting ducks that have no law enforcement power.
Marines were made to be second class citizens in New Orleans because of our archaic laws. Marines couldn't even enter a house to search for hurt victims. They had to peak through windows.
You have a governor like Blanco making military strategic decisions. It was Blanco who decided so late to ask for national guard help from other states.
This system needs to be changed. The military strategic decisons should not be in the hands of Blanco. In Iraq the generals made the decisions on the ground not politicians like Blanco. Blanco blocked the national guard from Michigan coming in. She doesn't know what forces we need, she doesn't know when to call them up, she isn't qualified.
You have Blanco blocking doctors from other states coming in because of some state law she won't change. You have Blanco blocking people from being able to take their pets even though it would speed up the recovery to allow them
You have Blanco blaming the Fed govt after she gave them no power. Then she comes to the Fed govt for welfare money. Blanco wants 250 billion to pay for tourism and salaries. The state won't even pay its' share.
Imagine if a foreign enemy were ever to attack this country and the military was hostage while Blanco blocked them. Military would have to stand back and watch its citizens be murdered as Blanco delayed asking for outside state national guard help, blocked outside state national guard help, and wouldn't allow marines or 82nd the right to defend our own country.
If U.S military can't protect their homeland their is something very wrong with our system. If they can't defend their own families why even have the military based here.
Federal troops can deploy faster than National Guard troops. The 82nd can deploy the fastest. National Guard troops have day jobs. The logistics are harder to move them.
Many FReepers would be for it, if it somehow ends the criticism of the Miers nomination.
The military should not be involved in disaster relief. They already have too many responsibilities that are not related to what they are supposed to be doing.
"Many FReepers would be for it, if it somehow ends the criticism of the Miers nomination."
What?? That has to be the largest stretch to link two completely unrelated issues that I have ever seen on FR.
This is just same-old same-old. Bush took a bashing after Katrina because the feds don't have a search and rescue infrastructure. The military already has equipment and training in such areas so they are the natural choice. VBush suggests it and he is bashed yet again by the same people. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Still, it's a bad idea.
Isn't the National Guard under control of the the state's governors?
Isn't the National Guard part of the military?
Agreed. When I first heard this a couple of weeks ago, alarm bells went off.
In a word, NO.
I believe President Bush's call for military powers in times of natural disasters is more an indication that our civilian organizations are so politically compromised that they cannot do their jobs effectively. I think the President believes that even with a Republican controlled Congress, there are too many RINOs to even attempt to make changes because the RINOs consider their political ambition more important than our national well being. Of course, we know that is true of Dimocraps.
I should have used the sarcasm tag. Of course, I wasn't serious.
Expanding military powers domestically is a very bad idea.
I trust the marines so much more than the corrupt New Orleans police department.
Do you think the marines would take your guns like the New Orleans police did. Do you think marines would block bridges from people that wanted to flee? Do you think marines would block airlifts to help feed people? Do you think the military would set up the superdome with no food for people to go. Do you think the military would causualties to the superdome that needed care. Do you think the military like Blanco did wouldn't separate the homeless that came in first from the rest of the citizens to protect the women and children?
Could you imagine a general ordering private citizens guns to be taken like New Orleans police cheif Eddy Compass did.
Blanco purposefully blocked aid to then be able to blame it on the feds. She did this to get money. This is LOuisiana's big windfall.
I disagree with the people that are so worried about the military helping in a natural disaster. We are wasting over 100 billion dollors because of the pictures at the convention center. Blanco was blocking the aid for those people. People that whine about the budget should know that because of those pictures the bill will be at least 100 billion more.
Military is best capable of making logistical decisions on the ground.
New Orleans police should be your worry. Stealing cars out of lots, looting people's homes. Taking their guns. The paranoia is placed in the wrong direction. I trust the marines I don't trust Ray Nagin and his thugs at the New Orleans police dept. And I don't trust Blanco.
State has the power to overrule local departments. People don't have a problem like that. But people are fine with Blanco using extortion to rape this country of hundreds of billions of dollars. And no one can stop her.
I hope your home never flooded to the roof and a governor was blocking the 82nd from using their resources to rescue you.
82nd couldn't go in until the situation was calm because they have no law enforcement power.
With lack of rescources being blocked by Blanco blocking salvation army people died.
In an emergency these archaic laws lead to death. Lawyers arguing about laws while people suffer and die.
We can get aid to Pakistan in less than a day because there aren't archaic laws like there are here.
All this fear about the marines coming in to help is wrong. I fear the corrupt New Orleans police department not the brave soldiers that care about America.
Then the response to that should be to hold incompetent local officials like Blanco accountable - not what is being proposed here.
People that are so worried about the military should be worried about other people.
The folks who wrote our Constitution were worried about the military and never wanted it to be used as a police force. Your statement makes no sense unless you feel that military policing of American cities is a good thing - our Founding Fathers did not.
New Orleans police taking your guns should be a bigger worry.
Agreed. Any cities police taking guns is a cause for worry. The military taking guns, however, is a greater one.
Blanco having the authority to order troops should be a worry.
We have civilian control over the military for a reason. Yes, Blanco is an idiot and needs to be tried for her crimes and incompetence, but she was elected by the people of her state. If the voters there decide that she can no longer be trusted to make life and death decisions like this then she will be shown the door. It's called democracy.
People are up in arms about Bush and the military but are fine having the power rest with Nagin, Compass, and Blanco.
See previous comment
What is foreign terrorists were to attack a city. We can't use the military. No that would be against Blanco's wishes.
If foreign terrorists attack a city the military would and should be used. That however, is a far different thing from saying that the military should be allowed to police a city because of a storm or any other event that isn't an attack.
Why have a military then?
To protect the nation from foreign aggression and to fight and win the nation's wars. NOT to be a de facto national police force that can be called on to patrol American streets when whoever is in charge at the time feels like. If the military is to be used to carry out operations on American soil it is to be done as a last resort only, and not as a matter of policy.
I can't believe that people would actually support something like this. What happened in NO, regardless of the incompetent local officials, was the result of one of the largest natural disasters in American history. Let's not overreact by spitting on the Constitution.
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