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To: mike182d

Ha, ha, very funny.

In the Bible, there is no promise that anyone, except for God, can hear our prayers. Period. No doubt about it. End of discussion.

In the Bible, there is no example of Christian prayer except to God. Period. No doubt about it. End of discussion.

I guess you can claim oral tradition or inspiration. I'd be curious to know year that started.


250 posted on 10/04/2005 2:22:02 PM PDT by Tao Yin
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To: Tao Yin
In the Bible, there is no promise that anyone, except for God, can hear our prayers. Period. No doubt about it. End of discussion.

I'm sorry, you've lost me here. I think you're confused about what prayer to the Saints actually entails.

Let me ask you this: when Jesus was ministering to people and they would ask him questions, were they "praying" to Jesus? No, of course not. I don't think you'll find any sane person that will claim that all conversation had with Jesus while he was alive on earth was "prayer." Jesus was right there in their midst and so communication with him was more earthly and direct. But, Jesus died, rose from the dead, and now sits at the right hand of God the Father. So, when I talk to Jesus Christ, it is now considered "prayer." There is a clear difference between talking to someone on earth and talking to someone in heaven and the definition of communicating with a person such as Jesus Christ in heaven is: prayer.

Would you ask your mother to pray for you? Most people would respond "of course!" Yet, if your mother died, would you still try and "communicate" with her? In times of difficulty or missing her, would you not say, "mom, I really need your help right now. I hope you can hear me." People do this all the time, Catholic and Protestant alike.

Furthermore, Jesus Christ himself "prayed" to dead people. As you admitted, Moses died and was buried. And yet, at the transfiguration, we have Jesus talking with Moses. How can this be? How can Jesus talk to dead people? Why would he talk to dead people? That's necromancy!!! Right....?

Do you find prayer to one's guardian angel unacceptable? When David invokes the angels in heaven to praise the Lord, is that unacceptable?

Bottom line:
- asking people to pray for you is encouraged in the Bible.
- asking those in heaven to pray with you is in the Bible
- ergo, asking people who have entered into heaven to pray for us is acceptable to the Bible.

It really is quite simple, or would you like to again disagree with 2000 years of Christian belief in favor of your own personal view?
259 posted on 10/05/2005 8:41:48 AM PDT by mike182d ("Let fly the white flag of war." - Zapp Brannigan)
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