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Probe: Four Doors Failed in Toronto Crash (Airbus)
Associated Press/AP Online ^ | 8/6/2005 | Associated Press/AP Online

Posted on 08/07/2005 12:55:13 AM PDT by dila813

TORONTO - Investigators trying to determine why an Air France jet skidded off a runway into a ravine said Saturday that only four of the aircraft's eight doors and emergency exits were used to escape the burning jetliner.

Real Levasseur of Canada's Transportation Safety Board said two of the slides used by the 309 passengers and crew in their rush to disembark after the crash last Tuesday also failed to work, even though they are supposed to automatically unfold when the emergency doors are opened.

The discovery confirms comments by many passengers and witnesses who said some of the slides and emergency exists were not functioning. Some aviation experts have surmised that the impact of the Airbus A340, which slammed into a ravine, might have damaged the exit doors and chutes.

Levasseur said two experts from the U.S. manufacturer of the chutes, Goodrich Corp., and one from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board were on site looking at why these slides and doors failed to work.

Air France Flight 358 landed at Lester B. Pearson International Airport amid heavy thunderstorms, skidding off the east-west runway some 218 yards and then slamming into a ravine.

Remarkably, none of the 309 passengers and crew members died, though at least 43 people were injured and several remained hospitalized Saturday.

Veronique Brachet, an Air France spokeswoman, said the pilot was still hospitalized with compressed vertebrae.

Meanwhile, a passenger has filed a class-action lawsuit against Air France, Toronto airport authorities and a Canadian private air navigation service, accusing them of negligence, the Toronto Star reported. The suit, filed Friday, asks for $62 million. An Air France spokesman declined comment on the lawsuit.

The plane's flight data and voice recorders were found intact and investigators said they should have details within days to help them determine what caused the late afternoon crash. There have been questions about whether the 9,000-foot runway is long enough and whether it is safe to have the ravine at its end.

Lucie Vignola, a spokeswoman for the federal transportation ministry Transport Canada, said a plan to require clear, nearly flat runway extensions was under consideration before Tuesday's accident.

She said Transport Canada decided to go ahead with the plan after it became clear that international standards are shifting to require additional room at the end of runways. The department has not determined how long the safety areas would be, Vignola said.

The Air Line Pilots Association said Pearson does not have sufficient safe areas at the end of runways, including the one on which Flight 358 attempted to land.

"This runway is not as long as what you find at most international airports, so the important of an adequate overrun is increased, and this accident is an example why," said Capt. Tom Bunn, a retired commercial airline pilot of 30 years for Pan and United Airlines, who now runs fear-of-flying courses.

The gully at the end of the runway has also been a source of contention. A coroner's jury recommended filling in the gully, or extending a causeway over it, after a 1978 incident in which an Air Canada DC9 aborted takeoff and ended up in the gully, killing two passengers.

Steve Shaw, a spokesman for the Greater Toronto Airports Authority, said that after the 1978 accident, the gully was graded so the slope was not so severe, but it was not filled in.

Source: Associated Press/AP Online


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: airbus; aircraft; planecrash; yyz
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Sounds like some huge issues.

I wonder what this will do for Boeing? If anything.

1 posted on 08/07/2005 12:55:13 AM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

Notice that they note the chutes were a US Manufactured product.

But don't note the manufacture of the plane is French?

Do I detect a bias?


2 posted on 08/07/2005 12:58:35 AM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

3 posted on 08/07/2005 1:04:15 AM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813

No bias at all. I am sure you are mistaken. The AP would NEVER be biased against the US. /sarcasm


4 posted on 08/07/2005 3:34:32 AM PDT by conservative cat
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To: dila813

Better the gully than running the plane onto the busiest highway in Canada, where there certainly would be motorist fatalities as well.


5 posted on 08/07/2005 3:41:17 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: dila813

If it's not a Boeing, I'm not going


6 posted on 08/07/2005 4:41:25 AM PDT by Figment
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To: dila813

"Investigators trying to determine why..."

I would say it's either the fault of Airbus or Air France.


7 posted on 08/07/2005 5:20:59 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: dila813

No longer black.


8 posted on 08/07/2005 5:21:26 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Brilliant

A brilliant deduction:)


9 posted on 08/07/2005 5:27:45 AM PDT by battlegearboat
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To: dila813

Airbus is not a French plane, but a European plane. BAE owns 20%, EADS (merger of French Aerospatiale, German Daimler Aerospace, and Spanish CASA) owns 80%. All Airbus planes include US components, as do all Boeing planes include foreign components. The cause failure of the doors and slides is unknown, but I'd say hitting the ravine at about 100 MPH might have had an impact.

The primary complaint the US has against Airbus is the extension of government guaranteed loans to fund new aircraft designs. The planes are perfectly servicable and have a comparable objective safety record to Boeing planes.


10 posted on 08/07/2005 5:39:13 AM PDT by usafsk ((Know what you're talking about before you dance the QWERTY waltz))
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To: dila813

Not that Air Frog and perhaps Airbus shouldn't be sued, but this jackass's suit should be dismissed immediately as frivolous until the initial investigation, at least, is complete.


11 posted on 08/07/2005 5:39:41 AM PDT by Doohickey (If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...I will choose freewill.)
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To: dila813

Actually is was the pilot who failed to use good judgment and land in Montreal or go around again until the storm was gone.


12 posted on 08/07/2005 6:05:50 AM PDT by OldFriend (MERCY TO THE GUILTY IS CRUELTY TO THE INNOCENT ~ Adam Smith)
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To: dila813
Indeed it does appear that this crash could be a blessing in disguise - the opportunity to learn how to make aircraft safer by exposing some obvious problems and all without the loss of life. I wonder if the doors didn't open simply because the passengers sitting in those exit rows had problems figuring out how to open them. I remember a few years ago sitting in an exit row and having the flight attendant explain it and on the particular craft I was on, it didn't make sense and certainly wasn't obvious. As I recollect, it involved pulling off a panel and then pulling on a handle and doing something else at the same time - and the handle was behind a panel that couldn't be seen during the explanation. Quite confusing. Something so simple as opening a door should NOT be hard - or made to be hard, particularly when also trying to contend with the panic of escape mode. Anyway, I have since observed the design of a few other ones which are much simpler and now when I check in, I always ask to sit in an exit row. Aside from the extra space, I want someone sitting at the door that immediately knows how to operate it - and that person may as well be me.

There is likely also some credence to the theory that the plane may have become so distorted from bouncing around that the doors just wouldn't open. If that's the case, it's obvious that a new design is needed. As for filling in the gully, it's pretty obvious that this was the only thing that saved the plane from ending up somewhere south of the 401.

13 posted on 08/07/2005 6:34:26 AM PDT by Asfarastheeastisfromthewest...
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: dila813
There have been questions about whether the 9,000-foot runway is long enough and whether it is safe to have the ravine at its end.

I guess we now know the answer to that one.

16 posted on 08/07/2005 6:45:36 AM PDT by Bon mots
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To: OldFriend

I think you are missing what the article is talking about.

Of course it was the pilots fault that they crashed.

But it isn't his fault the doors wouldn't open.


17 posted on 08/07/2005 7:30:41 AM PDT by dila813
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To: usafsk

All the more reason they should have indicated the country.

It could have been built in France or Germany, yet they didn't indicate.

Bias


18 posted on 08/07/2005 7:33:36 AM PDT by dila813
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To: dila813
"...There have been questions about whether the 9,000-foot runway is long enough..."

WTF?

19 posted on 08/07/2005 8:26:42 AM PDT by Cobra64
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To: Cobra64

How can we know when the pilot only used the last 3000 feet of it?


20 posted on 08/07/2005 8:37:32 AM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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