Movement to Expunge Criminal Records Arises in Black America

Newhouse News ^ | 7 26 05 | Jonathan Tilove

[John Robertson]

"Redemption should be rewarded."

Say Halleluja!

And I really mean that.

[Looper]

A couple of things about this are absolutely absurd. First, why are tax dollars at the SF Public Defender's office being used for this purpose? The PD is supposed to defend those accused of crimes, not try to expunge records of criminals.

Second, I agree that someone should not be prevented from cutting hair due to a conviction, but I don't want any convict electricians, who will be working in homes (such as mine while I'm at work and my wife and kids are there) and offices (where they can pilfer things).

Third, as some have said, enough with the whining and looking to the past. Don't commit crimes, don't have kids out of wedlock, make your kids go to school, and you'll be surprised at how much things will improve.

[SALChamps03]

Or ... as opposed to a guy who has NO IDEA how to recognize the signs of cocaine addiction in colleagues, and whose lack of experience with the hard ugliness of cocaine addiction rather makes him the better possibility to become a cocaine user if he falls in with the wrong crowd.

I don't need to recognize the signs of cocaine addiction to read a criminal report. A cocaine conviction automatically makes a person less qualified than a person who doesn't have one. It suggests a disregard for the law, and it suggest the possibility of recurrance. you sound a little defensive. Talking about yourself???

[Finny]

I knew what was right and wrong in my early teens and did not break the law. The situation is do not break the law unless you are willing to face the bar of justice. And part of that in many cases is a lifetime record.

I knew what was right and wrong by the time I was eight. But right and wrong don't have much to do with smart and stupid. You have always played by the book, no doubt, safely, guided by others, maleable in nature, sheltered, and directed. That's fine, as people like you, raised by people like you, are the backbone of what makes this world a wonderful place. But not all people who are not like you are bad people or even stupid people, and many are greatly creative, productive, and without them, we'd live in a static world. Doing stupid things, NOT playing by the book, venturing outside convention, is as much a part of their nature and nurture as playing it safe and "smart" is part of yours.

God forbid one of your children is a more rebellious when he or she is very young. You would no doubt have a different take on the "bar of justice" and "lifetime records" that again are not the result of laws, but narrow attitudes.

[SALChamps03]

That is called an exception to the rule.

[longtermmemmory]

I was not speaking in the religious context.

In prior years it was punishment was to "pay a debt to society" and completion of the punishment meant all debts are paid.

It is a relativly new developement that ANY infraction shall be a permanent unredeemable blemish. Even now with internet disemination of information, there is no possible means of ending the punishment phase of an infraction. Punishment becomes a permanent status for even the smallest of offenses.

[SALChamps03]

Actually, they can. It's just that the hairstyle of corn rows, which is still popular among black kids, makes it harder for lice to live.

[Finny]

Thanks for the moral support! Minds like yours help advance things in a good direction.

[The Red Zone]

Note please the question is not "have you been convicted of a crime." It's "have you been arrested." Which is technically illegal to ask under Federal law in most cases, but if you say anything about it you know you ain't gonna be on their candidate list.

[The Red Zone]

a fuzzie ought to be the foremost person to be concerned about what the law is in a new place.

[Dolphan]

And the guy with the 15 yr conviction, with a spotless record since that time, is likely to take that trip?

[Finny]

I don't need to recognize the signs of cocaine addiction to read a criminal report. A cocaine conviction automatically makes a person less qualified than a person who doesn't have one. It suggests a disregard for the law, and it suggest the possibility of recurrance. you sound a little defensive. Talking about yourself???

I'm talking about myself and you. You have no idea what you're talking about because you've never been there. I do because I HAVE.

The reformed and redeemed cocaine addict is the wiser choice than the guy who's never been around it. The former cocaine addict knows better than anyone how very damaging and dangerous the drug is. The former cocaine addict knows what to look for, while people like yourself wouldn't know a cocaine-using exec in your employ if he grew his little fingernail extra long and poked you with it.

Your thinking on what makes someone "automatically" less or more qualified, is shallow and poorly contemplated. As for disregard for the law ... a large number of the greatest, most productive people in American history, including Dubya, have broken the law. I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes of a true American hero, Chuck Yeager, a guy who, on a personal level, has shown some fine disregard for the niceties of convention! But our world is better and safer because of him and guys like him who know the difference between a loser and a the guy who pushes the envelope and learns from it:

"My friends and I always figured that rules are for people who aren't willing to make up their own." -- Press On, by Chuck Yeager

[motzman]

And by the way, not to be provocative or snarky, but, as someone who's known a lot of cops, and had a few in the family: There is ALWAYS a story. I'm betting the one you recounted is not the whole thing.

Sorry it doesn't work for you.

The point is---this guy just got chewed up by the machine ($$$ for PTI, lawyers, etc) over NOTHING.

The other point is---there are so many laws that people break them without even knowing. You think that an ex-deputy from La. is going to read up on gun laws in NJ which are designed to be so byzantine and anti-common sense so people can be shaken down? I asked him that very question he said "I thought New Jersey was still in the United States of America"---oh, he was wrong! In fact, a few years ago, a player for the New York (Jersey) Jets was busted because he had a couple of hunting rifles in his SUV. See, where he came from, nobody thought twice about haveing a hunting rifle in their truck. But in New Jersey!?!? Didn't he get the memo?

This whole thread is about people trying to get old convictions expunged so they can better their lives--and the biggest problem is that people have records over stupid minor offenses that exist solely to keep the money flowing to the cops and government (did you know that the average Northern NJ cop makes well over $100k a year?) while keeping "the niggers" in their place.

I live within (long) walking distance to Paterson, NJ. Go there and see homies on the corner dealing drugs, ho's, whatever. Why? For many of them, when they were teens, they got busted on some minor drug rap. Now, they can't do anything else, so guess what happens?

And, when you live in this area, you always know a lot of cops. They're all over the place. How can you tell?---look for the fat guy with the stupid expression on his face driving a 40K car and living in a half million dollar house. That's our local fat-asses at work. Watch them pull over over every under 50 year old black driver who is stupid enough to drive through one of the rich towns in the area.

Now remember, my perceptions are probably quite different from yours, because you probably don't live in a police state like I do. Here's an example:

3 Summers ago, a friend of mine (who's a liscensed pyrotechinician, works for Grucci) wanted to buy some "regular" fireworks (not the heavy stuff) but since you can't in NJ, we decided to take a nice country drive out to Scranton, Pa., which is about an hour and a half from where I live. We went way out there, and I noticed something as we were driving back through Pa. I didn't see one cop the whole time driving to and from Scranton, once we got over the NJ/Pa border.

As soon as we got got back over the border, cops everywhere. State Troopers, Sherriffs, locals, it was unbelievable. I never noticed it before, but when I left the area and came back, it was like a slap in the face. Since I don't speed (anymore) and "generally" don't break laws (but how would I know for sure?--no one sent me the manual) it never really bothered me. Meanwhile, right under our noses in Paterson, Jersey City, and Newark, we have terrorsit cells actively trying to kill us, and the $%*#'n cops are writing traffic tickets, all day, every day.

The only reason I live in Jersey is because my work can only really be done in NYC.

Sorry for the rant!

[TheForceOfOne]

Hell, why don't we just abolish the entire justice system and let anarchy engulf America. No laws, no crime, no reason to wipe the records of murderers, rapists, etc. who roam the streets.

Good Fricken Grief!

[rdcorso]

They make it seem like the good Rev. Mark C. Olds stole a pack of gum instead of taking an innocent life during a robbery.The guy killed someone while trying to take something that didn't belong to him.He should carry this with him until the day he dies.We don't want people like this teaching our children or carrying weapons in our communities.

[montag813]

I have no problem with this guy. You should expunge whatever you can get away with, just as your objective is a perfect credit rating and to pay zero taxes.

[Hegemony Cricket]

"Redemption should be rewarded."

I nominate this as Best Comment on this Thread!

[ßuddaßudd]

I thing there is a big difference between being arrested and being convicted. Glad to hear everthing worked out well for ya'.

[SALChamps03]

So you're saying that a person who used to be addicted to cocaine is more qualified than someone who hasn't? Please. Let's put it this. Someone who has a criminal conviction could and should have a make against him when I
m considering hiring him. He or she better have a whole bunch of positives to offset that big negative.

[SALChamps03]

Maybe not likely, but I would still want to know about it.