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LAPD officers kill man who shot at them while holding baby
AP ^ | 7/10/5

Posted on 07/10/2005 9:58:17 PM PDT by SmithL

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To: Nov3

Yeah. Life (and death) just isn't fair.


121 posted on 07/11/2005 1:31:04 PM PDT by null and void (You'll learn more on FR by accident, than other places by design)
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To: Horatio Gates

The instant feedback (Pain, plus the visual feedback of your hits) re-inforces things better than MILES ever did.

MILES is easily spoofed by covering the sensors with your arms in a "firing" postition. Sims just marks your arm as a hit. While a hit in the arm/leg won't take you out, an exercise controller can take you out after multiples.

I wish we could do more simunitions work, but we all know how the time and money drill go


122 posted on 07/11/2005 1:44:12 PM PDT by 5Madman2 (There is no such thing as an experienced suicide bomber)
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To: Cultural Jihad
And some people want to legalize cocaine.

The stories I've read said the police "believed" him to be using alcohol and "drugs". How do you know the supposed drug is cocaine given the autopsy is scheduled for today? He might have just been a pot smoker, like you, CJ.

You might as well assume the perp was an illegal merely because he is named Lopez.

123 posted on 07/11/2005 3:50:59 PM PDT by AdamSelene235 (Truth has become so rare and precious she is always attended to by a bodyguard of lies.)
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To: HolgerDansk; Horatio Gates
" I wonder how many people here appreciate the difficulty of hitting a 6 MOA moving target?

The shot is actually more like a 12MOA shot. It's the sight picture that's important. MOA is minute of angle. 6 MOA is roughly 6" at 100yds. 12MOA is double that. It gives the casual observer a better feel for the situation and what the sight picture looks like if you describe the 6" target(a plate say...) as a 3mm, or 1/8" object at arms length. That's roughly the width of the front sight blade. ~1/6th of that width should be light, appearing on both sides of the blade when the front sight is aligned with the back sight. The 6" target diameter at ~20yds appears as the same size as the width of the front sight. It's not hard to hit small on stationary targets like this, given practice, the gun's decent and drop/range has been learned.

Time of flight for a 45 to 20yds is about 73ms. If the target's moving 10MPH, it can move 12.8" in that time. So the shooter has to familiarize themselves with speed guesstimates and lead accordingly. As far as defense is concerned, this consideration is one of the primary ones. Consider bunny huntin' with a handgun, it's only hard, because the sight picture changes constantly.

It takes practice and some scratchpaper, but it's not hard to learn how to hit slow quarters and flying 'coons with a handgun within the range of 35yds.

124 posted on 07/11/2005 4:15:08 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: Yehuda

B&B Guns, they went out of business when the LAPD wouldn't return the guns they "borrowed" and wouldn't pay for them or provide him with paperwork explaining the matter. BATF came after them.


125 posted on 07/11/2005 4:16:29 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr
"B&B Guns, they went out of business when the LAPD wouldn't return the guns they "borrowed" and wouldn't pay for them or provide him with paperwork explaining the matter. BATF came after them."

They may have gone out of business, but the guns were returned and auctioned off for a fine price. The auction was held recently and I think in Vegas.

126 posted on 07/11/2005 4:27:52 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: Spktyr
yep...

"// BANK SHOOTOUT GUNS -- Bob Kahn -- owner of B&B Sales in North Hollywood, California -- gave his guns to lightly armed Los Angeles cops facing heavily armed maniac bank robbers -- cops disposed of the desperados -- cops gave the guns back to Kahn
// GUN AUCTION -- B&B's Bob Kahn -- Soldier of Fortune Publisher Bob Brown -- arranged to auction the guns at SOF Banquet -- proceeds designated for Los Angeles Police Memorial Fund -- or other worthwhile charity -- the auction netted about $8,200 designated for needy police families -- all LAPD employees -- not just sworn officers -- three .223-caliber Bushmaster carbines -- a pre-ban .223 rifle -- two shotguns -- real live auctioneer revved up the crowd -- pre-ban? -- must have looked ugly or something -- or -- otherwise not politically correct "

127 posted on 07/11/2005 4:33:01 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets

OK, must have been after I lost track of that. He was in hot water with BATF and LAPD was being a dick about it the last I'd heard, and he was going to go bankrupt because of it.

Of course, the guns were probably returned after he was out of biz, hence the auction...


128 posted on 07/11/2005 4:37:30 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

They were returned soon afterward sometime when he was in business, because I saw pics from a few photo shoots at the store with those involved all smiling.


129 posted on 07/11/2005 4:42:07 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets

There's no legal basis for BATF to hastle the guy about the guns, even if the cops kept them. He just reports them stolen if they don't give 'em back.


130 posted on 07/11/2005 4:45:29 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: spunkets

[shrug] OK, so I was in error. I don't think it was "soon after" though, I *know* it was at least a month or more. Could be wrong about that, too.


131 posted on 07/11/2005 4:46:10 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: spunkets

Since when has the BATF required a legal basis to hassle an FFL????


132 posted on 07/11/2005 4:47:07 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

I refuse to believe that the police weren't concerned with accuracy when faced with the life of an infant at stake.


133 posted on 07/11/2005 9:42:07 PM PDT by SALChamps03
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To: SALChamps03

Concerned, yes.
Able to deliver. no.


134 posted on 07/11/2005 9:55:26 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

It's very difficult to fairly judge someone's actions when you've not been in a similar situation.


135 posted on 07/11/2005 10:36:49 PM PDT by SALChamps03
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To: SALChamps03

The problem with your statement is that it assumes I *haven't* had to deal with a similar situation.


136 posted on 07/11/2005 10:43:19 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

The problem with yours is that you imply that you have without stating whether or not you have. Regardless, you didn't have to deal with that particular situation. I am absolutely certain that the officers who were involved will second guess themselves enough without our help. Can't we just agree that it was a tragedy, and no officer would want to be forced to make such a decision without looking for a way to blame the cops? I am sure they didn't ask to be placed in the situation by the perp, who I hold entirely responsible, because he's the one who fired on police officers, and he's the one who did it again after grabbing the child for a human shield. Goodness can we ever cut the cops a break for their thankless jobs that 99.9% of them perform with honor daily?


137 posted on 07/12/2005 12:24:00 AM PDT by SALChamps03
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To: SmithL

Nice father.

Why is his family complaining after he was shot? They called the police, didn't they?


138 posted on 07/13/2005 6:00:06 AM PDT by Sundown2005
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