Posted on 05/15/2005 5:44:10 PM PDT by blam
Iraqi rebels better armed than we first thought, say US marines
By Oliver Poole in Baghdad
(Filed: 16/05/2005)
Iraqi insurgents have proved to be better equipped and more elusive than expected, United States marines have said at the end of a week-long operation near the Syrian border.
Many rebels wore bullet-proof vests and a number had Soviet-designed armour piercing bullets and night sights, equipment rarely seen previously in Iraq.
In one clash two marines were killed when militant fighters lay on their backs in the narrow gap under a house and fired through the concrete floor.
The end of the offensive, which saw US troops pulled back towards Ramadi on the Euphrates, came as Condoleezza Rice, the US secretary of state, made a unannounced one-day visit to meet members of the new government in Baghdad.
She called on all Iraqis to be included in the political process. "Yes, the insurgency is very violent, but you can beat insurgencies not just militarily," said Miss Rice during a stop in Kurdish city of Irbil. "You can beat them having a political alternative that is strong."
Her visit follows the deaths of more than 450 people since the new government was announced last month, and comes amid Sunni frustration at receiving only a handful of places on a 55-seat committee to draw up the new constitution.
Yesterday the bodies of 30 murdered men, including 10 soldiers, were found and eight more Iraqis were killed in drive-by shootings and suicide bombs.
The murdered men - who had mostly been bound and blindfolded - were found in three locations in Baghdad and to the west and south of the city.
The week-long Operation Matador near the Syrian border was the largest sustained operation since the assault on Fallujah six months ago and was intended to target foreign fighters, particularly supporters of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the al-Qe'ada leader in Iraq.
Helicopters and jets swept over the area as more than 1,000 marines investigated villages along the north Euphrates near Qaim.
At one point troops reached within rifle-shot distance of the Syrian border. Nine marines died and about 40 were wounded in the fighting.
A spokesman described the operation as a "success" saying that more than 125 insurgents were killed and that it had established that the area was no longer an insurgent "safe haven".
It was previously used as a staging post for foreign fighters entering the country from Syria and as a refuge from which equipment and fighters were provided to insurgents in the rest of Iraq.
Col Stephen Davis, the mission's commander, said the presence of foreign fighters had been conclusively confirmed and a number of suicide vests and car bombs under preparation discovered.
The marines also unearthed a bicycle with a seat made from explosives.
The region, in north-west Iraq, is one where Iraqi security forces do not have a foothold and where US troops have rarely ventured in large numbers for a year.
More than half of the insurgents deaths occurred in the first day of fighting when marines crossing the Euphrates near Ubaydi faced unexpected resistance leading to a 12-hour battle.
The marines were initially supposed to play only a blocking role as special operations raids were conducted against followers of Zarqawi, who are believed to be hiding in a cave network.
This is now thought to have lost the American forces the element of surprise, with insurgents having learnt the lesson of their stand in Fallujah when 2,100 were killed. This time they took the opportunity to slip away rather than confront US forces.
The number of foreign fighters in the region had been estimated at the operation's onset as in the hundreds.
"That was the frustrating piece: coming up here for a fight and not finding anyone," said Major Steve Lawson of the 3rd Btn, 25th Marine Regiment.
Is this BS or what? Concrete?
Odd you'd of thought the block would have been on the
border? I suppose an air-insertion wouldn't have been
able to deliver enough manpower for an effective position.
Aren't most all centerfire rifle rounds, especially those from military rifles, pretty much armor piercing?
Secondly, if they are talking about the common vest any cop wears, won't any rifle pretty much penetrate one?
I too sat up when I read that.
No mention of what happened after that alleged assault.
Lordy! Do you mean "outsiders" are equipping these "insurgents" with military support...maybe even air support for air drops against our troops?
'Soviet arms"! Wasn't Bush just in Russia days ago?
Ya think them bastids is lying to us?
Good Lord! The news media has this as some sort of civil uprising against our "Imperialist" Troops.
Gosh. What's Tom Brokaw gonna say?
Apparently, the floor contained a grate and the shots were fired from beneath it through the grate catching the Marines by surprise.
Class III+ vests will stop all 7.62mm FMJ rounds shot at point blank range, but the trauma from the impact will bruise the chest, break ribs, bruise internal organs and even kill you. To increase protection, the soldier is suppose to add trauma plates made from ceramic armor, steel or titanium. The plates will reduce the trauma caused by the bullets impacting and slow it down if it penetrates the plates so the vest underneath will stop with less trauma to the wearer. The plates cannot be hit repeatly, because it will degrade and crumble.
Thanks. The media fails to include the facts. They had bullets zipping through concrete. Stupid jerks.
Oh what a pressurized flaming mixture of jellied gasoline and rendered pork fat would do to such "dug-in" mohammedans.
You should be a little more detailed here, the vest with the ceramic plate will stop a 7.62 x 39 MM,IE the Russian AK round, They will not stop the 7.62 x 59 mm NATO, the 308 round. The 7.62 is the bullet diameter same as a 30cal. To say it would stop all 30 cal rounds would be blowing smoke. I do not mean for you to take offense, you were just leaving a big gap.
Seems rather suspicious that the current fighters in iraq (terrorists) are better equipped than the Iraqi army and Republican Guard were at the beginning of the war.
Does this not add credibility to the claim that the insurgents and terrorists are coming in from elsewhere (most likely Syria and Saudi Arabia)?
Next time have a blocking force behind them. Pin them between two forces, and annihilate them in detail, but those two forces, their artillery and their air support.
They are learning, so we must keep one step ahead of them.
Presumably also not the common 30-06, the 7.62x54R round used in Russian/Chinese/lots of other folks, medium machine guns and their sniper rifles as well.
Will it stop a .45-70 round?
Ya think? What do you think the recent sale by Russia of SA-18s to Syria was about? It's to counter helicopter ops in Iraq. Heck, even some Sunni Iraqis say we have to attack Syria.
That and Syria would not be as easy to roll through as Iraq was.
Now there rebels?
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