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Commander says Fort Hood training 'of very little value' (TEXAS)
The Associated Press ^ | May. 06, 2005 | The Associated Press

Posted on 05/06/2005 8:13:09 AM PDT by Dubya

A commander with the Iowa Army National Guard says training problems at a Texas Army base left his unit ill-prepared for duty in Iraq, according to a copyrighted story in The Des Moines Register.

Capt. Aaron Baugher of Ankeny, Iowa, was the commander of the first Iowa infantry division trained at Fort Hood. In a report obtained by the Register, he said the 2004 training "was of very little value and poorly instructed" by soldiers who typically had never served in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Baugher's unit of 58 soldiers, the 194th Long-Range Surveillance Detachment of Johnston, returned to Iowa in late February after nearly a year in Iraq.

"Having been in Iraq ... conducting combat operations on a wide spectrum, we can confidently say we did not learn a thing at Fort Hood," Baugher wrote.

Col. Luke Green, chief of staff of the Fifth U.S. Army, said Baugher's complaint emphasizes the short training schedule part-time and reserve units have to become combat-ready.

"This is like getting your football team on the first of August and you have a game on the first of September, and you are working ... hard to get people ready, except in this situation people can die," Green said.

About 40 percent of all U.S. forces in Iraq are Guard or Reserve members.

Baugher's report said that in some situations, veteran Iowa soldiers had to correct instructors at Fort Hood.

No soldiers in Baugher's unit were killed, but one was seriously injured when he was shot by a sniper.

Col. Al Dochnal, a regular Army officer who commanded the brigade that trained the Iowa unit, disagreed with Baugher and said the Iowa soldiers received excellent training.

Brig. Gen. Mark Zirkelbach, deputy adjutant general of the Iowa Army National Guard, said he traveled to Fort Hood last year to personally address Baugher's complaints. He said he met with the commander of a garrison support unit and was told that corrective actions were being taken.

Zirkelbach said his primary concern was to ensure that 700 soldiers from the Iowa National Guard Task Force 168, which arrived soon after Baugher's unit, didn't have the same problems. The result, he said, was that the Task Force 168 soldiers had a better experience than the 194th infantry detachment.

"We owe it to our soldiers to give them the best chance of survival that we can. That was really the message that we took to Fort Hood," Zirkelbach said.

Baugher's report also detailed problems in his unit getting the equipment it needed before it was deployed.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aftermathanalysis; forthood; oif; training
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To: Meldrim

If you actually served in OIF/OEF I think you'd have to revise your statment. I came away with a much better impression of Guard and Reservists and a much worse impression of one particular service who has a great PR machine.


21 posted on 05/07/2005 5:46:47 AM PDT by Eagle Eye
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To: Dubya

"No soldiers in Baugher's unit were killed, but one was seriously injured when he was shot by a sniper.

Col. Al Dochnal, a regular Army officer who commanded the brigade that trained the Iowa unit, disagreed with Baugher and said the Iowa soldiers received excellent training."

Hmmmmmmmm who to believe...


22 posted on 05/07/2005 5:54:10 AM PDT by Liberty Valance (If you must filibuster, let the Constitution do the talkin')
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To: Gator101

IP on AP.


23 posted on 05/07/2005 5:57:54 AM PDT by verity (A mindset is an antidote to logic.)
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To: Liberty Valance

From my experience. guard/reserve soilders are more apt to speak out than active duty guys...its not a bad thing..


24 posted on 05/07/2005 6:00:05 AM PDT by Skeeve14 (De Opresso Liber)
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To: Rightly Biased

We don't need the draft?

The active Army fell short by 6000 in recruiting for April. That makes four months in a row that numbers have not been met and April was the worst so far. The Marines are not hitting their numbers either and the Guard and Reserve recruiting numbers are going into the toilet even faster. How do you propose we man the force?


25 posted on 05/07/2005 6:14:01 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: Dubya
Baugher's report said that in some situations, veteran Iowa soldiers had to correct instructors at Fort Hood.

Unfortunately, training schedules, the Program of Instruction and even lesson plans are written by staff weenies. The instructors are often the people a commander can do without. The order goes out – send me your best soldiers to be used as instructors. Is the commander really going to give up his best?
I also have to wonder what kind of unit training the Captain conducted with his unit during their weekends and ATs. At the least they could have been going over the lessons learned that are available from operations in Iraq.
26 posted on 05/07/2005 6:16:19 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: leadpenny

Not by the draft

Drafted army=Fraggs its officers


27 posted on 05/07/2005 6:37:41 AM PDT by Rightly Biased (Salvation is not a prayer and an experience its a life changing event <><)
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To: Rightly Biased

That's an answer to my question?

10,000,000+ draftees are part of what some refer to as "The Greatest Generation."

That's your argument? A very small percentage were misfits during Vietnam means we should not have a draft?

Do you suppose that the leadership of LBJ and McNamara may have had something to do with what happened 30 years ago?

If the cause is right and the leadership (civilian and military) is honest, the "draft" is not a dirty word.


28 posted on 05/07/2005 6:47:04 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: leadpenny

I just believe that a drafted army would not be as effective as an all volunteer army (army being armed forces)

When one os drafted for service their hearts are not in it and they will not do the dutys that are required of them and will never go above and beyond the drafting of thier duties. A drafted soilder never has a call to duty but they are forced into what they are supposed to do.

Its just my opinion lp I could be wrong. Ok?


29 posted on 05/07/2005 6:51:42 AM PDT by Rightly Biased (Salvation is not a prayer and an experience its a life changing event <><)
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To: Rightly Biased
Fair enough. It's a complicated issue but I believe the "draft without controversy" window was open for just a short time. Within a few days of 9-11 - probably when W was standing on the mound of ruble in NYC - the President should have said he was asking Congress for authority to draft. At the present time we may not need the draft but the authority would be there. Women should be included in the authority and they should be required to register at 18, along with the men, right now.

Under a draft, if someone does not want to serve in uniform, they should be allowed to perform an alternate service, but no one who is capable should be exempt.

The recruitment numbers don't lie. We are wearing out certain parts of our military and if we continue down this path, it will be harder and harder to rebuild, with or without a draft, if we get the chance.

I've said it before but General Shalikashvilla (Shali) and Elvis were drafted in 1958 and both did their duty.
30 posted on 05/07/2005 7:48:46 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: Meldrim; ASA Vet
Bottom line: the Army needs more active duty troops. With or without the war. The reserves are good people, but they are not cutting it. Resume the draft.

Bottom line: you don't know what you're talking about.

31 posted on 05/07/2005 9:35:07 AM PDT by Old Sarge (In for a penny, in for a pound, saddlin' up and Baghdad-bound!)
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To: Eagle Eye
"If you actually served in OIF/OEF"

I did. I am now watching the reserve units return and disintegrate. "I think you'd have to revise your statment."

No, I wouldn't. Using the current hostilities as a benchmark for future wars is a mistake. Look up the performance of the 45th Infantry Division in Korea. We don't need a repeat performance if and when a war that measures casualties in thousands per month begins.

32 posted on 05/08/2005 1:30:21 AM PDT by Meldrim
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To: leadpenny
"Women should be included in the authority and they should be required to register at 18, along with the men, right now."

To be used as what? Certainly not soldiers. We have never drafted people into the Navy or Air Force and would not need to because the draft would encourage enlistments into alternatives to the Army, just as it did in the 1950's.

As it stands now the average white female doesn't make it to the end of the enlistment. Why draft an element of the population that we know has 40% less upper body strength than their male counterparts into a job which potentially requires maximum upper body strength? Anecdotally, I've never seen a barracks that I'd want my sister or neice to be living in...and I would not want to impose that atmosphere on any woman. Aside from producing abortions and bastard children that burden the military budget, there is not much to be said for it. BTW, try getting the out of wedlock birth statistics from the Army. It is not something the institution wants to talk about.

Resuming the draft is a good tool to fairly and efficiently staff our army. Using it to create some national socialist "national worker" program is not necessary, and also creates an equivalence in service that is not beneficial to the military. We could end up with a situation as the Germans are facing now, where most men opt for civilian service to avoid the rigors of military life.

33 posted on 05/08/2005 1:43:15 AM PDT by Meldrim
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To: Old Sarge
Yes Sarge, we've discussed this before. How are those nationwide recruiting figures looking? Having a little tougher time bringing in the girls from the ghetto and Appalachia now. It may be because the families are finally wondering why they don't read about any strapping young men from the rich side serving in Iraq.

One thing we can agree on is that the time is long overdue to eliminate the AGR system. Just rotate active duty folks into the positions in the same manner that the Marine Corps does. I was through the NH State HQ the other day and I got the distinct impression the guys would have benefitted from a tour with the 2d ID followed by three or four years at Bragg or Hood, prior to settling into the Manchester suburbs. Of course, eliminating the AGR would also give the active folks the opportunity to get back to areas that they's otherwise get no chance to be stationed near. I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

34 posted on 05/08/2005 1:51:10 AM PDT by Meldrim
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To: Meldrim
Women are a resource. You're making an argument for not having women in the military in the first place. For the time being, that argument has been settled.

To be used as what?

To be used in what ever capacity women are serving in now - the needs of the service. But, that's about a draft. I'm talking about registration.

The registration of 18-year-old men is a contingency. The registration of 18-year-old women would be the same thing.

35 posted on 05/08/2005 2:06:55 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: Dogbert41

I was at my first duty station. When I heard that an IG was coming I said "Great!" I was told by another guy "Be careful. About six months after the IG leaves, bad things wil start happening to people who say negative things." That's what transpired. If it ain't a felony, and you have proof...


36 posted on 05/08/2005 2:20:45 AM PDT by 185JHP ( "The thing thou purposest shall come to pass: And over all thy ways the light shall shine.")
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To: leadpenny
"You're making an argument for not having women in the military in the first place."

No I'm not. Females were in the military from when the Draft was resumed prior to World War II through 1973. Nobody made the claim women did not belong in the military. Conversely, very few argued women should register for the Draft. That is because the memory of a real war was fresh in the memories of those who fought in World War II, Korea and Vietnam.

As for anything being settled regarding women serving, all I am seeing is the services saying one thing and doing another.

37 posted on 05/08/2005 6:19:26 PM PDT by Meldrim
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To: Meldrim

Let me get this straight.

You favor a military that encourages women to serve voluntarily in almost every MOS there is, but, when conscription is required, only men should be required to serve in those same MOSs against their will?


38 posted on 05/09/2005 4:37:36 AM PDT by leadpenny
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To: leadpenny
No, I oppose sending women anywhere near a combat zone. I oppose lower standards for women; once the lower standards are remedied, the disagreement almost becomes a moot point.

As for "nearly every MOS", depends in what unit. They cannont be clerks in an infantry battalion, nor medics, nor signalmen. So the fact that the MOS may be open is misleading.

39 posted on 05/09/2005 8:57:37 AM PDT by Meldrim
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To: Meldrim

Thanks for not answering the question. You lose.


40 posted on 05/09/2005 2:07:34 PM PDT by leadpenny
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