PUTIN TO USA: MIND YOUR OWN DEMOCRACY

Drudge Report ^ | 5/6/05 | Matt Drudge

[wagglebee]

MIND YOUR OWN DEMOCRACY, SAYS PRESIDENT PUTIN, DEFENDING RUSSIA'S AND CRITICIZING AMERICA'S ELECTORAL COLLEGE SYSTEM, IN AN EXCLUSIVE "60 MINUTES" INTERVIEW SUNDAY ON CBS

A combative Vladimir Putin tells Mike Wallace he should question his own country's democratic ways before looking for problems with Russia's. The Russian president also says the U.S. shouldn't try to export its democracy, as it is trying to do in Iraq, in an exclusive interview to be broadcast on 60 MINUTES Sunday May 8 (7:00-8:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.

Wallace gets quite a reaction from Putin by asking him about a recent change the Russian leader made. Says Wallace, "There was a time when the regional governors were elected, correct? And all of the sudden, Putin says, 'No, no, no. I shall appoint the governors.' That's democracy? That's not democracy the way I understand it," says Wallace. "The principle of appointing regional leaders is not a sign of a lack of democracy," Putin retorts. "You're absolutely wrong. For instance, India is called the largest world democracy. But their governors have always been appointed by the central government and nobody disputes that India is not a democracy," says Putin.

The Russian leader then points to what he believes are drawbacks to America's own brand of democracy, including the Electoral College system. "In the United States, you first elect the electors and then they vote for the presidential candidates. In Russia, the president is elected through the direct vote of the whole population. That might be even more democratic," Putin says. "And you have other problems in your elections," he tells Wallace. "Four years ago your presidential election was decided by the court. The judicial system was brought into it. But we're not going to poke our noses into your democratic system because that's up to the American people."

Putin also believes the U.S. democratic system does not travel well and that is precisely why he was against the war in Iraq from the beginning. "Democracy cannot be exported to some other place. [Democracy] must be a product of internal domestic development in a society," says the Russian president.

But pulling out of Iraq is not an option, says Putin. "But if the U.S. were to leave and abandon Iraq without establishing the grounds for a united and sovereign country, that would definitely be a second mistake," he tells Wallace.

[tarzantheapeman]

I am surprised they didn't pull donkey dan out of retirement for the interview.

He could add it to his impressive resume of interviews with dictators--castro, saddam, etc.

[wagglebee]

The United States was enforcing over a dozen UN declarations. What would Putin have us do in Iraq? Install a dictator as the Soviets did? Putin is using his "60 Minutes" segment to criticize the American electoral system that has worked for over 200 years. The Founding Fathers designed a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC, not a democracy, it would seem that Putin does not understand this.

As for the assertion that Iraq and other Arab nations have never known any form of republican or democratic system, then how does Putin expect it to work in Russia? Or is he acknowledging that democracy is going to (or already has) fail in Russia. Or are you trying to say that Russian had some form of republican or democratic form of government prior to the 90's? Because all I am aware of is centuries of Czarist absolute rule followed by seven decades of communist dictatorships.

[jb6]

Putin not only longs for the days of the Soviet Union, he is IMHO actively trying to return to it.

How? By the flat 13% income tax? By breaking at least a few of the monopolies? By the 24% corporate tax? By removing the sales tax? By slashing the payroll and VAT taxes? By initiating CHRISTIAN education courses in schools and the military? (that one is pure communism after all). By establishing trial by jury (another communist favorite) or by putting 20% of the land for sale and setting property rights laws (Marx 101 right there). Oh I know how he's doing it: by banning abortions after 12 weeks and working to ban them out right, along with banning euthanasia. Or maybe its the fact that the public there now has limited gun ownership rights, more so then in almost all of Europe. And the cutting down of government, that is by all accounts pure marxism, right? So how is he remaking communism?

Putin is no angel and has done some seriously stupid moves and mistakes, like selling weapons to Syria. But all this back to communism crap shows the total ignorance of our public who gets their information from our holy and pure MSM. By the way, do you also trust the MSM on Bush, Iraq and the economy?

[Destro]

My god - Putin has read the Federalist papers!! - PS: Senators in America used to be appointed not directly elected - nor is our president directly elected - England also used to have an appointed not elected system for mayors etc (London only had direct elections for mayor in 2000).

I hear the dead in Chicago and Texas can vote - now that is democracy!

Sprite518 said Putin does not understand that we are a Republic and not a Democracy. The Founding Fathers understood the dangers of a Democracy (aka mob rule), and that is why we are a republic.

Then how come Americans can't understand Russia is also republic as well? Which is what Putin is pointing out.

khenrich said: I'm glad the Japanese and Germans don't agree with you. They would still be a menace to the world. I do believe that in both countries, democracy was imported.

You are incorrect - America restored democratic and republican institutions to Japan and Germany. Germany and Japan were both constitutional republican monarchies (Germany later just a republic) before they fell to dictatorship in the 30s.

[jb6]

The United States was enforcing over a dozen UN declarations.

Stop right there. Yes we enforced them and we should have. That is very true. That's not the issue. We are trying to change their culture, they aren't the ones changing it. If they wanted a republican system and believed in it, their soldiers and cops wouldn't run away or switch sides to the militants any time our boys weren't the main combatent. Except for a few die hard units, the cores of which are US expats.

As for Russia, the Russians were experimenting with on and off constitutional monarchy from 1861. True, like the British, they at that time didn't have a written constitution. They did have Zemstovies, which were rural, or regional assemblies and by 1905 they had a Duma. The problem with the Duma, the first 3 Dumas were dominated by the left-liberal Cadets, the Socialists and the Socialist Revolutionaries who didn't come there to work with the government but to try and start a general revolution. The fourth Duma was the opposite. Either way they were working on getting a forumal down. Then came WW1 and the strains that caused the revolutions. Still they had two elections, including one right in the middle of the first year of the Civil War.

Further more, it wasn't NATO soldiers marching in Moscow that removed the Communists, it was the common people who toppled them (backed by the military) and instigated a republican system.

There's the world of difference.

[jb6]

The problem is, there is a whole generation of Cold Warriors who were very important in their time but are now dead weight living in the past and trying to take us there and doing their damnedest to ignore reality. Until they go the way of the dodo bird, nothing major will change on any side.

[jb6]

Don't forget that Italy and I believe France too, do not elect their governors and the West's darling Yushchenko is busy arresting and firing ELECTED opposition mayors and governors and replacing them with his APPOINTED flunkies.

[Destro]

The willful and ignorant lie that America imported democracy and republican institutions to Germany is one of the most disturning ones.

Germany had a tradition of republican institutions since the middle ages. Even the Kaiser's Germany was a constitutional republic. Germany was probably the most progressive nation/people on the planet. Why saying America imported democracy in Germany is dangerous is because it means we won't learn from history - that the most advanced and civilized nation on the planet can lose its soul and go down into barbarity like Germany did (before Hitler Jews and minorities lived freer in Germany than minorities did anywhere on the planet - inclding America).

The lesson of Nazisim is that it happened to a leading civilized nation and not to some backwater.

[jb6]

Why was he the only world leader to endorse Bush? Three times at that? Where were Blair, Barlesconi and Sharon?

[jimfrommaine]

Putin can say whatever he likes about our system. Just give us an idea of the future attacks Saddam was planning against us. I'm praying it has something to do with Salman Pak and the Fedayneen training on that Boeing 707.

[anonymoussierra]

Thank you my husband do will write

"You are on money. In here is problem of old thinking, we have bunch of these old guard guys, luck in their own mentality and self hatred. I forgot to mention also something else. I hope we wake up from slumber and realize Putin is double talker. Putin statements against US in this article clearly show his intentions and what he stands for. This is a strategic move by him, and I hope US wakes up to a fact they have to deal with old guys in Moscow in different ways. Till there is a change of old guard in Moscow, US would have to assume position of cold war mentality. Either way we look at it, we have emerging threat, and it seems we are forgetting this, and while we are fixing our eyes on social, historic, or other issues, this threat is progressing slowly- terrorism."

Thank you

[billbears]

My god - Putin has read the Federalist papers!! - PS: Senators in America used to be appointed not directly elected - nor is our president directly elected - England also used to have an appointed not elected system for mayors etc (London only had direct elections for mayor in 2000)

Unfortunately the last state to appoint their electors disappeared in 1868 (South Carolina) if I'm not mistaken. As for the popular election of Senators that is one of the major things that has brought this nation of states to the point that it is currently. I agree with you. We should not be voting for Senators or the President. I imagine shortly after a return to this form of government, a distressing (to some) drop in government programs would occur as the Senators would no longer need to pander to the citizens of the their states for votes

[jb6]

That's why Blair has Clinton campeigning for him. Blair is the Third Way socialist plant in Bush's camp and often champions Chirac's and Schroder's ideas.

[Gucho]

US has its own problems, nonetheless, at least they took ball by a horn, and send their young ones to fight for something they believe in freedom, dignity and self-respect. Instead criticizing US, maybe Putin should clean his own backyard, or is his memory to short of remembering what is happening in Russia, he should stop complaining and rather unite in more emerging threat to us all-terrorism."


Bump - Well stated.

[RussianBoor]

I am not so sure that Democracy in Russia was NOT in some way "imposed" from outside.

Yeah, you're right, democracy was invented not in Russia but in ancient Greece and in a sense imposed from there to everybody else.

We got to them, their people. Won that war without firing a single (big) shot. Thank to Ronald Reagan..

And here you are dead wrong. I am one of those to who you supposedly "got". We always had very clear idea what the communism was about. Furthermore, 1985-1990 were the years of very intense internal social and democratic development. Then twice, in 1991 and 1993, the country was on the brink of civil war. These crises taught us caution and that to avoid bloodshed different views in the society must be balanced, and the only mechanism to do it efficiently is democracy.

That's exactly what Putin means when he says that democracy cannot be imposed from outside. The idea of what is democracy is known to people everywhere. However, it works efficiently only when other circumstances are right. That's exactly what is missing in Iraq and will be missing in Iraq. When people go and vote for the leaders they were told to vote is not a democracy. Democracy is when people make individual choice to select a person who will best represent their interests. To be able to do this, the society should be developed enough for people to realize their self interests and understand the need for such system, and this need should grow inside that society. In Iraq, Shiites voted for Shiites, Kurds for Kurds and Sunnis for Sunnis. This is not a democracy, even if you like to call it this way. They will have democracy when conservative kurds will vote for conservative shiites because they best represent the conservative interests and ideals. Now it is tribal system with free elections of the tribal chiefs. Democracy is far from being equal to only free elections.

About Germany and Japan. I happen to be quite interested in the postwar history of Japan. What they have in Japan is not Western democracy, not even now. They have the same party in power for all 60 years, and real power struggle is not during elections but after them, between different factions within the same party. They just keep it quiet and everybody is happy.

About Reagan. I have been always amused by the views of supposedly great role of Reagan in the fall of Communism hold by people here. If any Western leader had any significant influence in Russia then, this leader was Margaret Thatcher, not Reagan. Reagan was absolutely neither liked nor respected in Russia until his death.

[Paradox]

However, it works efficiently only when other circumstances are right. That's exactly what is missing in Iraq and will be missing in Iraq.

This remains to be seen. Check back with me in 20 years, but I dont disagree with what you say about Russian Democracy. I believe its roots were in the hearts of the Russian people. I do believe that a bit of nudging by the West helped precipitate things.