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Armed pilots
Of Arms & the Law ^ | 28 April 2005 | David Hardy

Posted on 04/28/2005 4:13:38 PM PDT by RKV

Time Magazine has an interesting article on armed airline pilots, noting that they are now making more flights than are air marshals!

In his state of the union address, President Bush singled out federal air marshals—undercover armed agents who fly on U.S. airlines—for helping make "our homeland safer." But he neglected to mention a flying security force that has quietly grown even larger than the marshals: the nation's pilots. Two years ago, the Federal Flight Deck Officer program began training pilots who wanted to carry guns on flights to protect the cockpit.

Aviation sources tell Time that more than 4,000 pilots are authorized to carry guns, and each day they fly armed on more flights than do air marshals. The gun-toting pilots, who fly unidentified, now constitute the fourth-largest federal law-enforcement group in the U.S. Pilots in the program, as well as the Transportation Security Administration (tsa), which runs it, claim it has been a big success.

Rather humorous, considering the massive TSA resistance to the idea when it first came up. Here's a recent (yesterday's Congressional Quarterly) story on how it's still resisting....

Guns in Cockpits Program Still Half Cocked, Some Say

By Caitlin Harrington CQ Homeland Security Daily April 27. 2005

Two years after the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) launched a program to train pilots to carry guns in the cockpit, critics say lingering problems with the Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO) program still discourage pilots from participating.

Since the program's inception in 2003, pilots groups have expressed frustration with TSA policies on gun storage and identification. The policies, they say, put the safety of deputized pilots at risk and run contrary to the intent of Congress, which wanted as many pilots as possible to participate.

"They've created a program that is so unfriendly that tens of thousands of pilots have changed their mind about volunteering," said David Mackett, president of the Airline Pilots Security Alliance (APSA), a group formed after the Sept. 11 attacks to lobby for the arming of pilots.

The Department of Homeland Security's inspector general is investigating the program.

APSA estimates that only about 4,000 pilots have been trained and deputized - a fraction of the approximately 95,000 commercial pilots in the country. APSA estimates about 50,000 pilots who were initially interested in the program changed their minds after learning about certain TSA policies.

TSA defends the program, which has been widely praised by both Democrats and Republicans as a cost-effective deterrent to hijackings. The agency continues to deputize more pilots every week, said TSA spokeswoman Amy Von Walter.

But critics say participation would be greater if TSA changed some of its policies.

One of the most controversial requires pilots to store their guns in boxes whenever they are not in the cockpit. Both APSA and the Air Line Pilots Association, the nation's largest pilots union, say it is far safer to carry the gun in a holster at all times than to frequently transfer it to and from a box.

As it stands, a pilot might have to handle a loaded gun up to 10 times a day, APSA says.

Pilots have also raised concerns about the plastic cards that identify them as federal flight deck officers. They say they need to be able to hold up a shiny badge to prove their credibility if an incident occurs on an airplane. They also say they sometimes run into problems carrying guns at the security checkpoints because they do not have a badge.

TSA chief David M. Stone told The Washington Post earlier this month that "one or two" pilots authorized to carry guns have been put on the TSA's selectee list in the past year. Selectees are singled out for additional screening at checkpoints.

DeFazio Goes Forward

Rep. Peter A. DeFazio, D-Ore., was expected to offer a package of aviation security amendments to the first homeland security authorization bill on Thursday evening, including a provision designed to fix some of the problems with the FFDO program.

"We need to enhance their ability to [protect passengers] by removing any obstacle that discourages otherwise willing pilots from being trained and armed," he said.

"The FFDO program has been successful, but I believe it would see more participation if improvements were made," DeFazio said.

His bill would require DHS to issue badges to deputized pilots; set up a program to allow pilots to carry guns in holsters rather than in a lockbox; and make it easier for pilots to get the training required to become deputized.

Pilots groups have also voiced concern that federal flight deck officers are not allowed to carry guns on international flights, and say that there need to be more training facilities in the event more pilots decide to join. Today, all federal flight deck officers are trained in Artesia, N.M.

DHS' inspector general is investigating the training procedures and efficacy of the program, and is expected to release a report in June.

"TSA dropped the ball in a big way, and that's basically why we have the shell of the program that we should have," Mackett said.


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: airlines; airlinesecurity; airmarshals; armedpilots; bang; banglist; homelandsecurity; tsa
Underperformin' Norman Mineta who caused this mess is still at work as US Sect'y of Transportation. I heard Michael Chertoff (Sect'y of Homeland Security) on the Hannity show saying how well the armed pilot program was going. What a liar.
1 posted on 04/28/2005 4:13:38 PM PDT by RKV
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To: RKV

Time Mag link http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1025084,00.html


2 posted on 04/28/2005 4:14:07 PM PDT by RKV ( He who has the guns, makes the rules.)
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To: RKV

Money quote: "The Department of Homeland Security's inspector general is investigating the program. APSA estimates that only about 4,000 pilots have been trained and deputized - a fraction of the approximately 95,000 commercial pilots in the country. APSA estimates about 50,000 pilots who were initially interested in the program changed their minds after learning about certain TSA policies."


3 posted on 04/28/2005 4:15:25 PM PDT by RKV ( He who has the guns, makes the rules.)
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To: RKV

Not sure what the point of air marshals vs. armed pilots is.... but it seems weak.
No one knows what flights the air marshals are on. And mostly noone knows which pilots are armed.


4 posted on 04/28/2005 4:20:44 PM PDT by stylin19a ( "Sod off, Swampy")
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To: RKV

Sorry but the Congressional Quarterly story requires a subscription. Here is a general link http://www.cq.com/corp/show.do?page=products_cqhomeland


5 posted on 04/28/2005 4:20:57 PM PDT by RKV ( He who has the guns, makes the rules.)
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To: RKV

This time it really is Bush's fault.


6 posted on 04/28/2005 4:23:36 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: stylin19a

My point is that we should get to a state where the number of flights which have persons on board ready to offer armed resistance to hijacking is higher than 10% - which is where it is now (approximately).


7 posted on 04/28/2005 4:24:12 PM PDT by RKV ( He who has the guns, makes the rules.)
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To: yarddog

Yep. And I would prefer armed pilots to TSA baggage screeners. We lived for a very long time in a world where the feds let the airlines take care of this and we should be back there ASAP. TSA is a waste of time and money.


8 posted on 04/28/2005 4:25:55 PM PDT by RKV ( He who has the guns, makes the rules.)
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To: RKV
I read an article, actually here on FR, a while back which listed the barriers placed on pilots seeking certification and it is clear they are violating the spirit and probably the letter of the law.

Literally doing everything they can to prevent armed pilots without totally defying the law.

The fact that even a small percentage have gone through all the hoops shows just how much the pilots want to be armed.

9 posted on 04/28/2005 4:32:02 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: yarddog
Did someone say this was a nonsmoking flight?


10 posted on 04/28/2005 4:39:41 PM PDT by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: silverleaf

I'll fly with him..... he may end up punching a bunch of small holes in the cabin, but better that than one BIG one !!!!


11 posted on 04/28/2005 4:45:32 PM PDT by dfwddr (one nation, under God....)
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To: RKV; bitt

the story is sort of half-speed in a number of ways. This is the first I've heard that FDO's are sort of "deputized." who says they want badges? Would that be a Federal badge---Freddies Secret Service, Maybe? I just thot they'd be "captains of their ship." About like train engineers who are authorized to defend their trains.
And what's with the 95,000 pilots? Doesn't sound like very many. If that's true we have more gun dealers than pilots? In my own town we dammm sure have more pilots than gun dealers. In my view TSA should work it the other way and say that 96% of pilots are armed---go ahead, make our day!


12 posted on 04/28/2005 5:14:39 PM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: silverleaf

Pilot?---or just riding shotgun? looks familiar, maybe I trained him?


13 posted on 04/28/2005 5:17:37 PM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: RKV

And what makes anyone think the government is smart or even gives a damn what "the People" think about how the government runs any program? I think any program involved in citizens being able to protect anyone including themselves is made as hard as possible for citizens to take part in.


14 posted on 04/28/2005 5:24:15 PM PDT by lolhelp
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To: RKV

Mineta should go fly 1st class on a highjacked plane.
lot of good a pilot with a gun is when his gun has to be in a lock box in the cabin.
who thought of this silly ass plan, ALGORE?


15 posted on 04/28/2005 5:28:17 PM PDT by Rakkasan1 (The MRS wanted to go to an expensive place to eat so I took her to the gas station.)
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To: RKV
From Guns and Ammo Magazine; sorry, don't know the date of publication:

Cuffed In The Cockpit

America's armed pilot program seems stuck at the gate. Why?

By John Hay Rabb

The Federal Flight Deck Officer (FFDO) armed airline pilots program has been troubled by inadequate training and low pilot participation--just normal growing pains. But the situation has gone from bad to worse. The flying public is no safer now than it was before the FFDO program began.

The FFDO program's fundamental goal is to provide appropriately screened and trained pilots with firearms to defend the cockpits of their aircraft against unauthorized entry. For some inexplicable reason, the Bush Administration fought to prevent the establishment of the FFDO program. Fortunately, Congress spoke, and the FFDO program became law. Unfortunately, it soon became apparent that the Transportation Safety Administration (TSA), which oversees the FFDO, had no intention of complying with Congressional direction about how to establish and administer the program.

In the post-9/11 scramble to beef up security, one of the first safeguards deployed was armored cockpit doors. While this is certainly better than an unarmored door, it soon became apparent that additional defenses were needed. One news report said that a United Airlines cleaning crew accidentally smashed their heavy cart into an armored cockpit door, and its hinges popped off. The apparent vulnerability of these cockpit doors is not likely to be lost on an alert terrorist.

Trained pilots armed with pistols would markedly improve security against potential terrorists. But a pilot cannot effectively use a gun if he cannot gain access to it in a matter of seconds. That could be difficult, given the way TSA has structured the FFDO gun-handling-and-storage protocol. Unlike other armed federal law enforcement officers, FFDOs must keep their guns in locked containers inside nondescript luggage. This raises a number of problems. For instance, baggage handlers have already lost an estimated 300 FFDO firearms. Even if an FFDO manages to get his firearm successfully aboard the aircraft, he only has access to it when he is actually in the cockpit. If he leaves the cockpit for any reason, he must lock the gun in its container. The unarmed pilot then becomes vulnerable; the co-pilot or any other flight-deck officer could not gain access to the gun.

There are some 130 federal agencies that employ armed officers, including the Bureau Of Engraving and Printing, Fish And Wildlife Service, Library Of Congress, the Peace Corps and the Postal Service. Unlike the FFDOs, these officers are allowed to carry weapons concealed and available for immediate use. However, it's not clear that these armed officers are authorized to use their weapons aboard an airliner. The TSA has stipulated that an FFDO pilot may only use his weapon inside the cockpit. Consequently, it's simple to imagine a scenario in which several armed federal officers are on an airliner, but none of them is allowed (let alone trained) to use his weapon. This absurd tangle of laws and regulations binding both FFDOs and other armed federal officers is public knowledge.

The TSA has further hamstrung the FFDO program with a grievously flawed screening and training process. Even though all FAA-licensed pilots must already undergo routine periodical psychological evaluations, the TSA has laid on additional extraordinary psychological testing requirements for FFDO applicants, including a three-hour written psychological test followed by a long interview with a TSA psychologist. The TSA says this testing is necessary because "the gun is a distraction," and "we must ensure that the pilot is capable of landing the aircraft after using lethal force."

The Airline Pilots Security Association (APSA) has done yeoman work in the support of arming pilots and has collected numerous first-person accounts from pilots who have been through the FFDO evaluation and training process. A pilot who is also a retired Air Force colonel said, "The Air Force considered me psychologically sound enough to be directly responsible for nuclear weapons. Yet a TSA psychologist has determined that I'm unreliable to carry a weapon on my own airliner."

A military reserve pilot who flies F-16s as well as airliners was asked by a TSA psychologist if he thought he could shoot someone if necessary. This pilot flies lethal fighter jets and carries a sidearm while on reserve duty, and he answered the psychologist's question in the affirmative. He was inexplicably dropped from the FFDO program.

Even if an FFDO applicant makes it through psychological testing, he's still at risk for dismissal at any time without any explanation. One FFDO trainee--a retired Air Force colonel with 25 years experience as a commercial pilot, who held high Air Force security clearances and had access to nuclear weapons, was a fighter wing commander and a military firearms instructor--washed out of the FFDO program with no reason given. Another trainee was a federal law enforcement officer for 23 years and held high security clearances and trained at the FBI Academy. He was almost done with the FFDO training and was expelled one hour before course completion without explanation, he said.

Most FFDO applicants and trainees who are failed receive the same generic rejection letter: "Based on the TSA's evaluation during the selection process, you do not meet the criteria for participation in the FFDO program... You may not appeal this decision..."

One rejected pilot eloquently expressed his frustrations to the APSA: "The same administration that is dragging its feet in executing the will of Congress to arm airline pilots is hysterical about the possible dangers of armed pilots..."

APSA President Captain David Mackett laid blame for the stumbling FFDO program squarely at the feet of TSA. "Great strides could be made in improving the program," he said, "if the TSA were not so blatantly antagonistic to it."

Some members of Congress who supported original FFDO legislation thought they had heard just about enough. Then they read news reports about an intimidating e-mail message TSA allegedly sent to some FFDOs who had complained about the program. The message reportedly said, "Recent public disclosure of SSI (Sensitive Security Information) by FFDOs in the media, to law enforcement gatherings and [to] Congressmen is most alarming and a serious breach of security."

The last thing you want to do in Washington is tell someone they should not talk to Congress--it's like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Partly in response to the offensive e-mail message, several members of Congress drafted The Cockpit Security Technical Questions And Improvements Act of 2004, a bill that would essentially strip TSA of most of its authority over the FFDO program. The legislation has about 50 House co-sponsors, including Rep. Dan Mica (R-FL), chairman of the powerful Aviation Subcommittee of the House Transportation And Infrastructure Committee. An identical companion bill has been prepared for Senate introduction by Senator Jim Bunning (R-KY).

The Cockpit Security Act would radically simplify and redirect FFDO selection, training and implementation. Any commercial pilot with an FAA license who is not prohibited by federal law from carrying a firearm would automatically be approved as an FFDO. All FFDOs would have to complete an approved firearms-training course before being officially sworn in. Unlike the current situation, in which TSA firearms training is offered at only one location in New Mexico, a number of private U.S. training facilities would be certified to train FFDOs.

The legislation would also put many more FFDOs in the air. There are approximately 100,000 commercial pilots in the U.S.; fewer than 800 are currently FFDOs. At any one time, there are only about 300 FFDOs to cover some 35,000 daily flights in the U.S. The bill would provide that all airline pilots who have active, retired or reserve military status and who have had military firearms training would be automatically approved as active FFDOs. These pilots would be required to complete an approved firearms instruction program within 120 days of appointment. About 70 percent of all airline pilots have prior military experience. The automatic-appointment provision would also apply to pilots who are active or retired law enforcement officers.

One of the legislation's most critical provisions addresses the nonsensical firearms lockbox requirement. Under the bill, FFDOs would be permitted to carry concealed firearms in the same manner as other federal officers. They would also be allowed to use their firearms outside the cockpit if the need arose.

On any given flight, there may be one or more armed federal officers riding as passengers. There is currently no single chain of command for these officers. The Cockpit Security Act would stipulate that if the pilot of the aircraft is an FFDO, he is automatically the senior federal law enforcement officer on the plane. The legislation would also allow any FFDO to disclose any information about the FFDO program to any member of Congress. This provision would measurably improve Congressional oversight of the FFDO program.

There's no guarantee that the Cockpit Security Act will pass Congress and be signed by the president. But even without new legislation, Congress still controls the purse strings for the TSA and the FFDO program. That authority can and should be used.

16 posted on 04/28/2005 6:04:32 PM PDT by 45Auto (Big holes are (almost) always better.)
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To: cherokee1
his is the first I've heard that FDO's are sort of "deputized."

No "sort of" about it, they are reserve federal officers.

17 posted on 04/28/2005 8:35:25 PM PDT by El Gato (Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)
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To: El Gato

Just trying to get the story right: So if they take the class they become RFO's? No money in it tho? But unarmed pilots would not be RFO's? I thot they had to pay their own way for the weapons training so the jump to a federal officer status seems a bit ethereal to me. The airlines don't, so far as I can learn, pay for the training or even make it easy on the "trainees."


18 posted on 04/28/2005 9:16:01 PM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: cherokee1
But unarmed pilots would not be RFO's? I thot they had to pay their own way for the weapons training so the jump to a federal officer status seems a bit ethereal to me. The airlines don't, so far as I can learn, pay for the training or even make it easy on the "trainees."

You got it. Of course it's weird, it's the federal government, and it's a program the agency running it did not want.

19 posted on 04/28/2005 9:18:04 PM PDT by El Gato (Activist Judges can twist the Constitution into anything they want ... or so they think.)
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