Conservative Evangelicals Say New Pope Speaks Their Moral Language

Christianity Today ^ | April 20, 2005 | Adelle Banks

[NYer]

The day before Roman Catholic Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger became Pope Benedict XVI, he declared in a public Mass that a "dictatorship of relativism" threatens the absolute truth claims of the church.

That statement could easily have been made by conservative evangelical leaders in the United States. Despite theological differences, they're cheering the choice of a pontiff who seems to speak the same moral language they do.

"Relativism, pluralism and naturalism are the three main foes of evangelicalism today and they're the main foes of conservative Roman Catholics," said Norman Geisler, president of Southern Evangelical Seminary in Charlotte, N.C., and co-author of Roman Catholics and Evangelicals: Agreements and Differences.

[Romish_Papist]

"I guess you can call me an apostate too, because I am no longer in bondage to idols, and free to worship and follow the living Christ as the Scriptures teach."

Yes, you would fit the bill of apostate. And as far as being in bondage to idols, you have not a single clue what you are talking about. But what makes you so certain your interpretation of what the Scriptures say is correct?

[Romish_Papist]

"The Holy Scriptures was God breathed by the Holy Spirit of holy men of God and given through the Jews, written in Hebrew and Greek and translated by King James:"

So you deny that the Council of Trent was inspired by God into forming the canon of Scripture, but you say King James was inspired by God to translate it? That makes no sense at all.

[glory2]

I was very moved by your comments. I was raised in the Catholic church. I even wanted to be a nun though out school, but in my early 20's married a protestant. Not knowing at the ripe old age of 23 wanted to have my handicapped baby baptized Catholic and was told by the church unless I remarried Cathoic I was ostracized from the church as not being married and in God's eyes not married but a 'harlot'. Many years have passed and I thought all my feeling toward the church were gone until I began reading the writings of Pope Benedict.

I am a born again Christian who loves Jesus Christ with all my heart and soul. I have 3 grown children who serve the Lord, but I can say I have been so disappointed in the Evangelical churches through the last election. The Democrats can have Kerry preach each Sunday during the campaign and we Evangelicals are so afraid we can't speak in church on who is the candidate that stands for life, against abortion, Euthanasia, cloning, etc.
I am intent on watching Pope Benedict. He quotes Jesus' challenge "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." That is the scripture that held me through the turmoil of losing my church as a young girl. I watched him give Mass last night and I believe we might have someone in the world who will have the courage to speak up against the evil in the world, where the Evangelicals are often quieted into complacency for fear of their tax status or offending members of the church and lost revenue. The world needs a strong voice and for the first time in 30 years I feel homesick.

[Romish_Papist]

"I never worshipped the idols of Mary and the saints..."

Neither do we child. Tryt actually learning about it as opposed to professing ignorance.

[Romish_Papist]

"No thanks, genuine evnagelicals want nothing to do with Romes vision of a one world church."

Funny, but I don't recall Christ telling the Disciples to baptize people into 31,000 different Protestant denominations either.

[ndkos]

The Catholic Church does not teach that all Protestants or non-Catholics are going to Hell. What it does teach is that anyone who know the Catholic Church is the one Christ founded and dies apart from it will not be saved. But of course, that only makes sense or the Church would be irrelevant.

[JohnnyZ]

Not knowing at the ripe old age of 23 wanted to have my handicapped baby baptized Catholic and was told by the church unless I remarried Cathoic I was ostracized from the church as not being married and in God's eyes not married but a 'harlot'.

That ...... wasn't right.

I pray that you will find the home you seek in the Church. I would suggest talking to your local priest -- he may help you heal those old wounds.

(And if a priest or layperson says something that sounds fishy, get a second & third opinion and consult the Catechism! Priests make mistakes, and some may just communicate poorly.)

[Daisy4]

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." How do you interpret that passage?

---

The catholic church has distorted and taken this passage out of context for centuries.

The Gospel of Matthew Ch. 16. vs. 16-19 [KJV]

And Simon Peter answered and said, 'Thou are the Christ, the Son of the living God'

And Jesus answered and said unto him,

'Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona,: for FLESH AND BLOOD hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

---

God revealed to Peter who Jesus is when Jesus asked him "But whom say ye that I am?" [vs. 15]

***The "rock" that Jesus is talking about is none other THAN JESUS HIMSELF***

---

As for it being scriptural, who assembled the scriptures? Who preserved the scriptures?

God gave the Jews the priviledge of writing and preserving the Old and [New Testament, except for the Book of Acts and the Gospel of Luke] We owe our salvation to the Jews. The first Christian church was started by Jews. It was the Jews who spread the Gospel. It was Paul who took the Gospel to the Gentile nations at that time, and Peter to the Jews at that time, starting from Jerusalem, along with the remaining apostles. John the Baptist was a Jew, who first introduced Jesus.

Peter himself needed a Saviour, and was merely a man, but was blessed because He recognized who Jesus was when Jesus asked him... the others were not as sure as Peter, but still followed Jesus.

"....and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Peter, [as can all followers of Jesus] can bind any spiritual demonic forces through the power of the Holy Spirit that lives in them, and can loose the power of the Holy Spirit through the Holy Spirit living in a believer through prayer. This Gospel of Christ is given to all generations of believers in Christ.

The Gospel of Mark tells us, after the Resurrection of Jesus, Jesus said to his followers: [Jews] "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature, He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be dammed. AND THESE SIGNS SHALL FOLLOW THEM THAT BELIEVE; In MY NAME shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues, They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark Ch. 16 vs. 15-18 KJV

"Do you see the problem with this statement?"

Absolutely not.

The original twelve apostles plus Paul, were chosen [not elected] by Jesus Christ, and gave us the TEACHING to live by through the ACTS OF THE APOSTLES, and the epistles, but Jesus is the ROCK of His church, and His teachings supercede any others; and all believers in Christ are given the same Holy Spirit that was given the first apostles and early Christians.

[GipperGal]

God bless you! Welcome home.

I just wanted to share with you a passage from John Paul the Great's January 2000 sermon during the "Week of Prayer for Christian Unity":

The wish that flows from my heart and becomes a fervent entreaty before the throne of the eternal Father is that, in the not too distant future, Christians will at last be reconciled and be able to walk together again as one people obedient to the Father's plan, a people who can repeat with one voice and in the joy of renewed brotherhood: "Blessed be God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with all the spiritual blessings in the heavens" (Eph 1:3).

May the Lord Jesus hear our prayers and our ardent plea. Amen!

"Unitate, unitate"! This cry which I heard during my visit to Bucharest comes back to me like a loud echo. "Unitate, unitate", shouted the people gathered for the Eucharistic celebration: all Christians, Catholics, Orthodox and Evangelical Protestants were chanting together: "Unitate, unitate". Thank you for this call, this comforting call of our brothers and sisters. Perhaps we too can leave this basilica crying out like them: "Unita, unita; Unite, Unity". Thank you.

[Daisy4]

But what makes you so certain your interpretation of what the Scriptures say is correct?

---

Do you not have the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised to all of those who put their faith in Him? The Holy Spirit leads into all truth.

[Daisy4]

Might be part of your problem right there. You're missing a few books in that incomplete version of the Bible. And the teachings of which you refer to the apostles handing down the Scriptures from is called "tradition."

---

The Book of Revelation of Jesus Christ written by John:

Ch. 22 vs. 18:

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book,

"If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto the plagues that are written in this book;

19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

[GipperGal]

Daisy,

The literal translation of "Peter" is "Rock". Pete means rock.

You have a lot of hostility towards Catholics. This discussion appears to have begun because someone accused Catholics of saving that all non-Catholics are going to hell. That is not what Catholics think. But it would appear that the argument has come full circle and now you are saying that Catholics are barred from heaven.

I am going to end this discussion because it would be uncharitable to go any further in this. Instead let's contemplate the words of St. Paul in his letter to the Philippians, which I will quote using the King James Version:

Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:

The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:

But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

[Daisy4]

You have a lot of hostility towards Catholics

---

It is you, my friend, along with other catholics that are doing the accusing and showing hostility, which does nothing to further your cause. Not me.

Good night, sweet dreams, and God bless all the catholics on this board.

[my_pointy_head_is_sharp]

It's important at this time that Catholics and Protestants put aside their differences and fight together. There's a lot to do.

[tjwmason]

You're probably embellishing, but has he essentially said this?

His Holiness has certainly said that all non-Catholic religion is deficient - with which sentiment I heartily agree.

I would strongly recommend Dominus Iesus to anybody interested in what the Pope has had to say on this issue before.

[Romish_Papist]

"Do you not have the Holy Spirit that Jesus promised to all of those who put their faith in Him? The Holy Spirit leads into all truth."

Yes, I do. You claim you do as well. We obviously differ on what the Scriptures say, so how do you know YOU are right?

[Romish_Papist]

""If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto the plagues that are written in this book;"

Then why are you not angry that the KJV "added" it's own bias by removing books?

[SoothingDave]

There, now you have the entire quote along with footnotes, Ratzingers point is writng is clear: No salvation apart from the Roman Catholic Church. But hey, now that he is "pope" he is changing his song and dance, now he says: "lets all get together" (just so long as it is under the authority of the pope and the umbrella of the Roman Catholic Church). No thanks, genuine evnagelicals want nothing to do with Romes vision of a one world church.

Thank you for once again pointing out the absurdity of any belief system predicated on the idea that each person is individually qualified to interpret difficult texts for himself.

To put this charitably, you may have read portions of Dominus Iesus, but you have demonstrated that you do not understand what you read.

Like I said earlier, stating that those outside of visible communion with the Catholic Church nevertheless have access to salvational grace in some "extra-ordinary" way we do not fully understand is not an insult.

SD

[katana]

It is very good that we focus on any and all areas of agreement with our Catholic brothers. Those areas of shared belief (IMHO) far outnumber the ones where we have disagreements. We are also on the same side of the ramparts opposite the same enemies. Further, I think most of us feel a deep kinship and respect for both this Pope and his predecessor.

But what we do not feel is an obligation of allegiance or belief in his or any other man's infallibility. If his intention will be to have us "rejoin the flock" then I'm afraid he'll be in store for disappointment.

In a similar way, American's can feel a deep regard for Britain and her monarch. At one time we were one people (before the Reformation our ancestors were part of one church). But we are not going to rejoin Britain or become part of the Commonwealth, and we Protestants are not going to bow down to authority of Rome. That being said, we still love y'all like the brothers and sisters you are.

[GipperGal]

That being said, we still love y'all like the brothers and sisters you are.

We love you too!

Let me ask you something, and tell the truth now. No matter what you think us, you have to admit, we know how to throw a great funeral! And we really know how to welcome a new pastor with class and joyous enthusiasm! White smoke, blessing urbi et orbi (to the City and the World!). You can't be a student of history and not get at least a little kick out of seeing the continuity here. St. Peter himself is buried under the great dome that Michelangelo built. How cool is that?! Even my most ardent Lutheran friends find it inexplicably cool and amusing that the ATMs in the Vatican are in Latin! (I wonder how you say "withdraw from checking account" in Latin?)

You don't need to swear allegiance to anyone or whatever to join us in celebrating our Christian heritage and our shared faith in Jesus Christ. Come to Rome for a vacation some time, look around, enjoy the art and the music and the beauty of this faith, which is yours too.