First off - let me say I have known and worked with and liked personally many Muslims and that while I haven't read the Quran, I have done some reading on Islam written by Muslims. Those writings were positive toward Islam, I read with an open mind thinking Islam wasn't necesarily bad, just that it had some bad followers. After reading that,I subsequently changed my mind - and although there are some aspects which are OK, I think the basic tenets of the religion are deeply flawed and potentially dangerous. Unfortunately, we've only seen some of this potential danger realised - there's a lot more scary potential left untapped. So in summation, I don't like Islam, at all.
On the other hand... I don't agree that "our tolerance" will be our undoing. Rather than taking a religious stance, I rather support the freedoms and liberties that Western society has - some of this the result of Enlightenment thinking, some of this the result of the Protestant struggle.
When we deny liberties to others, we deny them to ourselves. If we support the extension of fundamentalist Christian views onto society at large (e.g. denying others choices based on someone else's doctrine), then we are giving aid and succor to fundamentalist Islam.
I see two distinct, but entangled threats to my liberties and freedoms. 1. The growing tide of fundamentalist Islam. 2. The reactionary elements of the Christian right who seek to deny me many of the same liberties that fundamentalist Islam would, e.g. free speech, freedom to live my life largely by my own moral code (within the law), freedom to NOT worship and freedom to seek the truth as I see it based on science and empirical, rational objectivity.
I have had this debate with a FRiend here and I do understand your position. I agree with you more than you think.
In what ways are Christians attempting to deny you free speech,freedom Not to worship etc?
As a Christian I have NO problem with any of the things you mentioned in point #2 of your post.
As for Islam you said; we've only seen some of this potential danger realized - there's a lot more scary potential left untapped.
So I'm trying to understand your position? If we have a known enemy of this Country, we are to "tolerate" it, because its citizens don't want to lose their own civil liberties? I may have completely misunderstood what you were saying, and if so I apologize.
One thing I do know...if Islam accomplishes what it has set out to do, this Country will become a dhimmi Nation, or worse, and we won't have to worry about civil liberties... we won't have any liberties. That, is what I want to prevent.
Howdy...
I am about to head out of town for a week (ages and ages in FR time), but I wanted to let you know that I think you're right on track about how the anti-liberty crowd is aiding the Islamicist movement, not stopping it.
You are so wrong about fundamentalist Christianity as you put it. I don't see them DENYING you anything! Have they put a gun to your head, or chopped it off for 'defying them'? I think not.