Posted on 04/13/2005 1:24:56 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
It was about Stalin, but now that I think of it, I think it was actually a Russian production.
Wasn't Beria called "Stalin's Monster"?
While there are authentic records detailing Stalin's orders to leave German civilians unmolested, there is also evidence that in many cases the orders were ignored by individual soldiers. Commanding officers on the field often simply "looked the other way". It is doubtful that Stalin himself expected his orders to be obeyed or seen as anything more than a formality. Certainly the kind of violence perpetrated by advancing Russian soldiers would be consistent with Stalin's own well-known violent history.
I actually visited St Petersburg in the summer of 2000, and there is still-- after 50 years-- alot of tangible anger at Germany and Nazism. Eastward advancing Nazis lined up men women and children indiscriminately. The horros inflicted on the Russian people are well documented (it was actually especailly bad in Ukraine).
While this doesn't excuse the Soviet atrocites to follow, it's important to look at the events in context. There was justifiable anger on the part of Russian soldiers-- which was then amplified by Soviet propaganda-- leading to often brutal acts of retaliation against German civilians.
The Ukraine was a rough place to live in the 30's and 40's.
WWII started when it did because Stalin entered into a secret pact with Hitler to carve up Poland. That gave Hitler the insurance he needed to launch the Blitzkreig. So who started WWII (or as the Soviet propagandists called it, "The Great Patriotic War")? Stalin - the great Soviet leader/butcher/murderer.
That was Hitler's biggest mistake. Originally the Wehrmacht was welcomed as liberators by the Russians, who saw them as a relief from Stalin. Had Hitler treated occupied Russia in the same manner that occupied Holland or even Vichy France was treated, resistance from the Red Army and partisans would have been greatly reduced, and Hitler probably would have succeeded in the East.
Heck he had Ukrainians asking to be able to fight the Red Army.
The left of course maintains that Stalin used the pact to buy time for an eventual war with Hitler. Riiiiight.
Interesting take, you're probably right.
I think if Hitler was smart he wouldn't have opened up an Eastern front at all-- although the allure of Caspian oil, a relatively unprepared Soviet army, and his desire for a Jewish-free Lebensraum to the east were undoubtedly tempting for a greedy dictator who just saw his army blow through Poland and France virtually unopposed.
Hitler's racially motivated contempt for (mostly Jewish) Ukranians probably prevented him from enlisting their support against Stalin, even if they were anxious to get out from under the Soviet boot (Stalin was as virulent an anti-Semite as Hitler was). Plus, there was really no need for extra indigenous support at that time-- it wasn't until the Germans were on the verge of taking Stalingrad (and 30 miles outside Moscow) that Stalin finally came out of his shock and mustered some kind of organized defense against the Nazis.
In mid-Spetember 1939, the Communist Party, USA, announced that the Nazis and the Allies were "equally guilty," and demanded the USA's neutrality. They said the "previous alignment into democratic and fascist camps loses its former meaning," and condemned US Lend-Lease aid to the UK as a "blueprint for American Fascism." The New Deal "Popular Front" alliance between the Communists and "progressive" liberals had collapsed.
I have been aware of this for awhile and over the years have only come across scant data, not that I have put this at the fore (is there EVER enough time to do everything??)...
There are strong rumors (maybe even absolute proof - I haven't checked into it 100% yet -- too may items on the front burner) that many US Airmen never made it out of Russia (not "Russia per se - but Russia under Stalin). What would be KEY here are declassified Russian military and Communist documents, to the extent that these ba%^rds documented their killing, wrongful imprisonment, torture, interrogation, etc. Compared and contrasted with like documents from the US and even other countries' declass intel files, we can make some headway on this one. I would like to write a book on this subject, but my life spand does not appear to be approaching 800 years...
If you DO take the time to look into that angle, pls. ping me w/any intel/info you dig up. Tkx in advance.
We need a "US Airmen killed by Stalin PING list", hopefully this will be a "high volume" PING list..
This buried secret is key. The families need to know the Truth, so help us God.
I have been aware of this for awhile and over the years have only come across scant data, not that I have put this at the fore (is there EVER enough time to do everything??)...
There are strong rumors (maybe even absolute proof - I haven't checked into it 100% yet -- too may items on the front burner) that many US Airmen never made it out of Russia (not "Russia per se - but Russia under Stalin). What would be KEY here are declassified Russian military and Communist documents, to the extent that these ba%^rds documented their killing, wrongful imprisonment, torture, interrogation, etc. Compared and contrasted with like documents from the US and even other countries' declass intel files, we can make some headway on this one. I would like to write a book on this subject, but my life spand does not appear to be approaching 800 years...
If you DO take the time to look into that angle, pls. ping me w/any intel/info you dig up. Tkx in advance.
We need a "US Airmen killed by Stalin PING list", hopefully this will be a "high volume" PING list..
This buried secret is key. The families need to know the Truth, so help us God.
"So who started WWII (or as the Soviet propagandists called it, "The Great Patriotic War")? Stalin - the great Soviet leader/butcher/murderer."
You can point any number of fingers at people whose decisions were pivotal in starting wwII, but no figure is more prominent nor crucial than Adolf Hitler, NOT josef Stalin. I think hitler would have found another way to start a war if the non-aggression pact with stalin and subsequent partition of poland hadn't been worked out, as he simply wasn't going to stop trying to expand.
"Originally the Wehrmacht was welcomed as liberators by the Russians, who saw them as a relief from Stalin."
BINGO. This point has been made by many, many diff. people of many diff. stripes over the years. Tomes can be written about this, and yet, due to the nature and "character" of the "liberating force" major mistakes were definitely made. Hopefully we can analyze and learn from said mistakes.
From a moral standpoint, it is always better to be "more than a conqueror", and that is a key concept.
Imagine a Russia that was liberated by a pro-democratic country, one of whose guiding military ideals is to "free the oppressed"?
Wow. Totally different ballgame. A free Russia??
A Religious Russia; a peaceful Russia; a Russia characterized by private property (held by individual Citizens); a commercial Russia characterized by a strong entrepreneurial spirit and commitment to individual enterprise down to the lowest level; a Russia that has legal realms of economic "specialization" that has definite beneficial products to offer the rest of the world; etc.
That scenario clearly did not happen, sadly, to the detriment of the millions upon untold millions of Russians who were killed and otherwise suffered under an incomparably brutal regime that was NEVER BROUGHT TO JUSTICE. (Now that's ticks me off...) In addition to the needless suffering invoked by the events of 1917, justice was not served. Would you have wanted YOUR great grandparents and grandparents to have lived in Bolshevik Russia from 1917 up to Stalin's death in '53 (and beyond)? I do not think so.
And, yet, due to Leftist infiltration in many of the Academic, Media, Political and other circles, it looks like all these poor Russian souls will have to bring their sad situations to God quite directly, posthumously, of course, in millions upon millions of "unsolved" cases and in countless "disappearances".
I would encourage every single Russian Citizen to REJECT all Stalinist and Marxist thinking, and reject the Russian mob and be stalwart in the defense of Individual Liberties and Freedoms and even expand upon them (peacefully), so that all may go well for them and all their neighbors. Personal freedom is key. Freedom of speech and of organization are also keys. Religious freedom is key. Dont make the gruesome and fatal mistake of the U.S.A. and fall victim into the bankrupt and dangerous liberal, Left Wing, atheist, anti-Christian separation of Church and State path.
For all the Russians out there, I would advise you all to choose your future wisely. Act justly, love mercy and walk humbly with ones God.
For FREEPERs in the U.S. I would posit that we have a LOT to learn about religious freedom from post-Soviet Russia, FYI.
I would say that in the U.S., traditional religion and Christianity in all orthodox forms are under attack, and on the defensive. That's probably one of the biggest problems in the U.S. toady.
... and it CAN be fixed...
Corr: "today" (toady??) huh?
So much for being imperfect and also not proofreading..
Duh
That was an excellent show.
Of course they don't run it any more. I can't even find it on the web. Let me know if you discover any DVD or VHS versions of it. I'll never understand why THAT isn't on the History Channel. I used to watch that show again and again just because it was so much information--although they did spend a lot of time on those graphic headings. The 15 seconds it took them to put up "ORDER OF BATTLE" and play the little theme music clip seemed like an eternity when you were waiting for the Japs to get their asses whupped. : )
I read a book a couple of years ago by two German historians about the Eastern front. Their basic thesis was that Hitler had no chance of conquering the Soviets after failing to beat them in 1941.
It must have been rough for all those Stalin apologists in this country at the time to explain his pact with Hitler.
I also read something about it, but even If that really happened, still It was Stalin's fault that he believed in these false informations.
The Commissar Vanishes:
The Falsification of Photographs
and Art in the Soviet Union
by David King
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