Posted on 03/07/2005 9:26:44 AM PST by conservativecorner
Most of your example (not all) are about singular instances of a sin, not the whole vein, the disposition to keep committing that particular type of sin. Saying it is the individual sin that cause one to go to hell is indeed a strawman:
Ok, so let's have it your way. Let's assume that we stick to the moral absolutes....We tell Jimmy that his mom's are hell bound because they are lesbians.
This is true. If they are continuing to live the sinful lifestyle, then they are blaspheming the Holy Spirit and there is no forgiveness for that sinful way - until such a time they repent - then there is forgiveness. Not only that, but they are also denying God and His Truth by knowingly living that style. Although we can't judge - scripture does not have much hope for them if they are continuing to practice homosexuality.
We'll tell Johnny his mother is hellbound cause his mother just wanted to be happy and divorce is father.
Getting a divorce is not necessarily the same as adultery. Probably a strawman here. (And she should know that her happiness is not being married to or not being married to someone - but it is found only in being made right with God through Christ Jesus.)
We'll tell Sammy his father is hellbound because in his sales presentation when asked whether his product was the lowest priced for similar utility he while never answering the question directly, led the buyer to believe that it was so Sammy's father could reach his monthly sales goal. Strawman - you as talking a single instance of lying. We all like sheep go astray. Nowhere in scripture does it say that one lie sends someone to hell. :(
We'll tell Sue that her parents are hellbound because her mom and dad didn't tithe even though they have problems just putting food on the table. Again, this is a strawman arguement. Tithing is not commanded in the NT for one thing, although it is in the OT, but never of money! But that is also not listed in the passage you gave. But elsewhere Paul says God loves a cheerful giver and doesn't say the amount. So this is almost a double strawman, if there is such a thing.
We'll tell Henry that his parents are hellbound because in their business they are not statistically meeting the net weight on the package of milk they produce for the school milk program, but it's only a gram or two. But then again, it's theft.
Again, one strain of theivery does not necessarily mean they are going to hell - especially since your example doesn't sound like they are necessarily doing it on purpose. Probable strawman.
Let's tell everyone in class who doesn't go to our church that they are hellbound because they don't meet the biblical criteria our church has found in scripture to be saved.
Obvious strawman - for one, it very obviously isn't biblical.
I have a hard time with Paul saying to the unsaved if you are the adjectives in verses 8 & 9 you're hellbound, but if you've accepted Christ, well....nevermind.
I agree none are without sin, even those who are real Christians. But my understanding is grace is for those who have accepted and done the necessary things to become a Christian, but despite every intention of living to the word have failings.
Those who are like those described in 8&9 are far from making every intention. My examples in reply 7 are examples of those who are doing 8&9 sins.
You can flap you idiot gums all you like, and I have a right to ignore you.
I appreciate your response. Really.
You have mail.
It seems you recognize that I won the debate. Freedom rules!
Members of society have the right to enact various penalites upon those they deem to be bad parents, anything from tellign them so, to announcing their views to the public at large, to shunning them as friends, etc. And if the bad parenting can be demonstrated to have led to bad behavior of the parented, legal recourse can be sought, in both criminal and civil court.
Being a bad parent is *not* consequence free from the standpoint of society at large.
The Libs are active - designating certains days for their pro-deviance agenda. What are the Conservatives doing that is both active* and pro-active? Anything? The problem is that the Conservatives don't seem to have an agenda - while the Libs have nothing but an agenda. This is a big-enough Conservative forum - why don't we set the agenda?
*Yes, I know some FReepers are involved in freeping & rallies & protests - which is great. But the Libs are doing the same - and more. They're designating days. They're setting the agenda. Why aren't we doing that? Why are we letting the Libs set the agenda for the entire country? As a result of our not doing enough, the whole country is slowly turning liberal.
You've got to understand that these people live, think & breathe activist liberalism every second of the day. They're not sitting around bemoaning the slide into liberalism. They're actively creating liberal agendas and policies. We need to do the same with conservative agendas and policies. Anyone?
You're a Master of the Obvious, aren't you?
You just love to year yourself flap your meaningless gums.
> You're a Master of the Obvious, aren't you?
It was a flash of obviousness that you didn't seem to understand. You argued *against* the idea that raising children badly can have earthly consequences.
I never said of anything of the kind, you liar.
I responded to your stated desire for the state to step in and tell people how to raise their children under penalty of law.
> you liar.
Think twice...
> I responded to your stated desire for the state to step in and tell people how to raise their children under penalty of law.
Did you, now. Please tell me in which post I suggested such a thing. Be clear.
Ummm... no, but if society wants to raise kids up to be darling little gift givers and bug catchers parents have the responsibility to say something to society. But then, you should have already known (or did know) that was the point.
I didn't realize the above statement was just a fart coming out of your brain.
Please accept my humble apologies.
Dobson's a nice guy, but he can be wrong occasionally.
Like years ago, telling parents to spank year-old toddlers.
But he can take whatever the left dishes out. BTW, I love SpongeBob.
You know, I couldn't find that anywhere in my Bible. Could you give me a reference? My Bible says that we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God, but that, through faith in Jesus Christ, we are forgiven - even adulterers, thiefs and liars. I could give you references, but you'd probably have to borrow a Bible to look them up.
> Please accept my humble apologies.
If you are appologizing for confusing "society saying something" with "passing laws telling you how to act," then, appology accepted.
All those arguments relate to these verses: 1 Corinthians 6:9 (New Living Translation) 9Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, 10thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlers--none of these will have a share in the Kingdom of God.
Quick reply - I have to run:
If they are ongoing, then these people know they are doing wrong and therefore know they are going against God. There is no forgiveness for obstinate or unrepentant sin. It isn't the things they are doing necessarily, but it is the fact that they are denying God and His truth. And they will not have peace with Him, nor will anyone, until they come through Jesus - by repenting of their own ways. I am not sure that Paul is saying that they are going to hell if it is a true believer who may be doing one of these things without realizing it. They certainly won't be enjoying peace with Him, having a part of the Kingdom while here on earth while they are willfully doing those things. And a true believe will know they are out of whack with the Lord.
If I get a chance, I might elaborate on this in freepmail - perhaps tomorrow.
Well, of course. However, if you mistreat, abuse, neglect, poorly educate, abandon, whatever a child such that this (say, crack-fueled gang thug) is the end result... do *you* not bear some responsibility in the matter?
When has society ever demanded punishment for a parent whose child turned out bad? You can place as much blame on the raising of the child as you want, but in the end, it is the ultimate responsibility of the grown child for his/her actions. There are enough people who look into a criminal's past to see if there just might be something in his upbringing which caused him/her to turn out bad. It's a copout and society needs no more of these excuse makers.
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