Two Die In Passaic County Plane Accident

1010 WINS WEST MILFORD, N.J. ^ | Feb 28, 2005 6:50 am US/Eastern | 1010wins

[Dashing Dasher]

Gravity is always a contributing factor.

;->

[bill1952]

Two pilots, and nobody checked the sumps?

[bill1952]

79 does seems quite old, doesn't it?

I was going to say that he must have been okay with his physicals, but then I remembered that a CFI doesn't need one to right seat.

[leadpenny]

Not if the CFI is behind a set of controls and the other guy is not current in the aircraft.

[bill1952]

No, the correct wording would be who is PIC, and that, according to the FAA meetings that I have attended, does not depend on currency.

But it is true that I have heard different opinions from different FISDOs.

I would look to the AOPA as the answer of last resort, but I'm no longer a member.

[leadpenny]

I haven't been in the regs for some time either but think about it. In this case you had an airmen who was not current in the aircraft. If the CFI didn't have a current physical, there would have been two pilots at the controls, neither of which would be authorized to pilot the aircraft solo.

[leadpenny]

I should have said you had an airmen who did not have a current license. Makes no difference - the 182 is a single pilot airplane and neither of these two gentlemen would have been legal if the CFI did not have a current physical.

[Petruchio]

How picky are they when it comes to the physical for a private ticket?

[bill1952]

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but I worded it wrong.

I will be very interested to find out the status of his medical, and the reasons for the crash.

Personally, incidents upon takeoff disturb me, as they are almost always pilot error.

[leadpenny]

I'm not sure what a CFI needs. I'm guessing a Class II, which means once a year. I'd think the important thing is that any flight surgeon is going to look over a 79 year old feller pretty good. He may even need an EKG once a year at that age. Other than the physical health, it's a lot of the same issues as for older drivers.

[leadpenny]

The take off concerns me too but it could have been anything unrelated to the CFIs age. I'm going to bookmark the thread and see what the NTSB says about it in a couple of weeks.

[Petruchio]

I guess I worded my question badly.

I have always had a desire to get a private ticket, going back to when my Uncle took me up in his plane when I was 4. Now in my late 40's I have the time to persue it, but I also have had a heart bypass operation. Would that disqualify me?

[Turbopilot]

I'm not sure what a CFI needs.

To instruct, no medical is needed. To also be PIC, he needs a Class 3, good for 2 years (if obtained at or over age 40).

The article said the left-seater was "refreshing" his PPL, which is media-speak for "I have no idea about aviation so I'll make it up as I go along." The pilot could have been current and legal and was just getting a BFR before his previous one had expired; if so, he could have been PIC and the CFI wouldn't need a medical. If the pilot had an expired BFR or for other reasons couldn't be PIC, the instructor would need the Class 3.

[Turbopilot]

I have always had a desire to get a private ticket, going back to when my Uncle took me up in his plane when I was 4. Now in my late 40's I have the time to persue it, but I also have had a heart bypass operation. Would that disqualify me?

Possibly not, if your heart condition is stable. You may need to show you're off meds and can pass various tests to get what's known as a "special issuance" medical. The process is longer and those tests are probably not covered by insurance, but it's doable. Your best bet is to join the Aircraft Owner's and Pilot's Association. They have experts you can call to review your specific situation and tell you how you should go about it.

NB: Do this BEFORE you attempt to apply for a medical. It's much easier to get your ducks in a row in advance than it is to get an issuance after a medical examiner has denied or deferred your application.

[Petruchio]

Thank you for the concise answer. I will look into it.

[leadpenny]

If the pilot had an expired BFR or for other reasons couldn't be PIC, the instructor would need the Class 3.

That's the scenario I was assuming. Thanks.

Are there no other gates for someone of advance age? A 79 year old, just passing a class III, wouldn't need to see the doc until he is 81?

[Turbopilot]

The medical issue may be a non-starter. According to the FAA's Airman Certification Inquiry website, Harold Eugene Botsford Jr. was issued a Class 1 Medical in January 2005, with the restriction "MUST WEAR CORR LENSES & POSSESS GLASSES FOR NEAR & INTRM VISION." Quite the ratings collection, too:
ATP-ASEL
ATP-AMEL
CP-ASES
CP-AMES
CP-G
Type ratings for Convair 240/340/440, B-26, G-III, a couple Lears, and a Dassault.
Also CFI, CFII, CFI-ME, AGI, IGI.

I'm impressed, to say the least.

No "Fletcher, T" in New Jersey; there's a Thomas Patrick Fletcher in New York with a PP-ASEL and a Class 3 Medical from 8/2003.

[Turbopilot]

Are there no other gates for someone of advance age? A 79 year old, just passing a class III, wouldn't need to see the doc until he is 81?

Correct, unless he's on a special issance. The FAA (and insurance companies) can make a pilot renew any medical before the expiration date, so if there's a reason they can say, for example, that the pilot must renew his Class 3 every 6 months.

That doesn't appear to be the case here, however. See my post #37. This 79-year-old just got a Class 1 last month with the only restriction being that he needs corrective lenses.

[bill1952]

As a CFI, I still remember what my first CFI told me.

If you have to answer "yes" to anything on the questionnaire, you probably won't get it without a long process of jumping through hoops, and even then it's iffy.

There is always the "sport pilot" ticket, that I believe still needs no medical, although it has a lot of conditions attached to it.

Freemail me if you want a pointer or two on your medical.

[leadpenny]

Wow, he was keeping his ATP current. A B-26 Type. How 'bout that?