Hydrogen Fuel May Not Be So 'Clean'

FoxNews ^ | 1/23/05 | Unknown

[Blood of Tyrants]

LOS ANGELES — Hydrogen-fueled cars have been hailed as the future of transportation — clean, safe and propelled by a power source whose only by-products are air and water.

[snip]

The problem, critics say, is that the technology that makes the fuel of the future generates just as much pollution as the gasoline-powered vehicles we drive right now.

[snip]

Extracting useful quantities of hydrogen from water requires a massive amount of energy — energy that typically comes from burning oil or coal.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Once again the envirowackos are chasing an enviromental pot of gold that doesn't exist.

[Servant of the 9]

This has been obvious to everyone but flaming liberals and the Governator since the start.

So9

[killjoy]

Extracting useful quantities of hydrogen from water requires a massive amount of energy — energy that typically comes from burning oil or coal.

So use nuclear power to do the extraction. QED.

Of course they will not mention this because you can't say anything good about nuclear power generation.

[kinghorse]

It would seem to be an improvement if you try to manage the environmental effects at a few thousand points (plants) than at over a billion(trucks and autos). I know beans about the technicalities but that's the way it looks to me.

[Hodar]

Extracting useful quantities of hydrogen from water requires a massive amount of energy — energy that typically comes from burning oil or coal.

Yes, and you can also use whale blubber to power the generators, you can burn tires, or heck; just nuke a lake. I HATE articles that look 'forward' using backwards technology to accomplish things.

Or, you can use solar cells to generate the weak electrical field to break the H2O bond (a href="http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,64797,00.html"> Link

[ChadGore]

Isn't natural gas a good source for extracting Hydrogen ?

[hoosierham]

Too many people ignore the losses involved in energy conversion. Just as it was taught in our high school science of the mid 20th century, it takes the burning of 3 pounds of coal at the power plant to produce the heating effect of 1 pound of coal in an electrical heated home. Heat pumps have since improved that but at the cost of inreased complexity and enormous cost.

[NonValueAdded]

Once again the envirowackos are chasing an enviromental pot of gold that doesn't exist.

21st Century alchemy?

[Blood of Tyrants]

There are other problems with hydrogen gas such as leakage, reactivity, and transportation. Hydrogen is not the magical fix for the environment.

[stboz]

This country gets 20% of it's electric power from nuclear energy. It gets 17% from burning natural gas. We get about 2% of our electric power from burning oil. The gas is needed for other purposes like plastics and nitrogen fertilizers. We need more oil regardless.

We need to go ahead with more nuclear and we need to do it yesterday. The natural gas we can replace with nuclear. The oil problem isn't going away. More efficiency will help....more oil will help more.

[MarkL]

Extracting useful quantities of hydrogen from water requires a massive amount of energy — energy that typically comes from burning oil or coal.

Like a vampire to the sun, these people are deathly afraid to use the "N" word... NUCULAR (in deference to Jimmy Carter).

Mark

[Blood of Tyrants]

Yes, it is but there isn't enough natural gas to provide fuel for 200 million cars in addition to current demands. Hydrogen can be extracted from gasoline in a fuel cell fairly easily but the envirowackos will not hear of it. Viable portable fuel cell technology is still a decade or more off.

[MarkL]

Isn't natural gas a good source for extracting Hydrogen ?

There's lots of hydrogen locked up in those hydrocarbon molecules, but given the way the price of natural gas has exploded over the last few years, I doubt that it will be economical. I just opened my gas bill for last month, and I owe Missouri Gas Energy over $245!

Mark

[Blood of Tyrants]

You mean solar cells that cost several thousand dollars per kilowatt to manufacture and erect and doesn't work very well on cloudy days and deosn't work at all at night?

[facedown]

Hydrogen is not a source of energy but rather a form of energy storage. Regardless of the source of energy used to produce the hydrogen, the overall process is an energy net negative. In other words, it takes more energy to produce hydrogen than is produced by burning it.

[hopespringseternal]

Or, you can use solar cells to generate the weak electrical field to break the H2O bond (a href="http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,64797,00.html"> Link

LOL

A lot of energy is released when hydrogen and oxygen burn. To generate that potential again by cracking water, you have to put just as much energy in. TANSTAAFL.

And solar cells are hardly "free" energy. The reason why solar cells and windmills haven't caught on is it can cost more to make them than they will ever produce, especially when you factor in maintenance.

The liberal answer is just to subsidize them, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the energy has to come from somewhere first.

[Flavius]

To bad Tesla is not around, with free energy, you would be able either to use it directly or convert to hydrogen...

But off course there is no profit in free. On the other note, well someone took all his files so we dont really know what he was trying to get to. On an cool note the dude was good friends with Einstein and Mark Twain...

so, anyways , 2c worth...

Nikola Tesla, Our Father of AC Current The Wardenclyffe Tower located in Shoreham, Long Island, New York.

One of the most important inventions of Nikola Tesla was was the electrical transmitter. Shortly after leaving his Colorado research facility and returning to New York, Tesla began construction of an gigantic version of this invention, to be known as The Wardenclyffe Tower. Constructed between 1900-1905, the tower stood 187 ft into the air, with a 68 ft metal dome The purpose of the tower was to transmit wireless messages across the Atlantic and, as he had told his financier J.P. Morgan, provide free energy to the entire globe.

Tesla believed this to be a simple procedure, and later confirmed through experimentation, that the Earth conducts electricity naturally, much like a metal ball. Tesla hypothesized that Earth could be charged from a single location and energy could be safely extracted from any other point on the globe's surface.

The Earth could be pumped with electricity and anyone on its surface could remove it by simply placing a wire into the ground. This energy could be withdrawn in unlimited amounts for unlimited uses, free for all the world's people!

The Wardenclyffe Tower was never completed. Morgan refused Tesla the funds necessary to complete construction, and finding alternate financing proved impossible. The Tower at Wardenclyffe was later dismantled under F.B.I. supervision.

Now the Wardenclyffe Tower and facility is listed in the National Historical Site, and on July, 1976 a plaque bearing the following inscription was placed near the entrance to Tesla's Wardenclyffe laboratory by the people of Yugoslavia:

IN THIS BUILDING DESIGNED BY STANFORD WHITE, ARCHITECT, NIKOLA TESLA, BORN SMILJAN, (Croatia, Serbian National by Birth/Heritage)YUGOSLAVIA 1856, DIED NEW YORK, USA 1943, CONSTRUCTED IN 1901-1905 WARDENCLYFFE, HUGE RADIO STATION WITH ANTENNA TOWER 187 FT. HIGH (DESTROYED 1917), WHICH WAS TO SERVE AS HIS FIRST WORLD COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEM. IN MEMORY OF 120TH ANNIVERSARY OF TESLA'S BIRTH AND 200TH ANNIVERSARY OF USA INDEPENDENCE - July 10, 1976

Doesn't it seem ironic that such a device existed back in the early 1900's. Tesla had the right idea but the Government could not find a way to place a meter on free energy. It seems such a shame that we cannot work for mans benefit instead of a monetary benefit of a few people and governments.

[Blood of Tyrants]

And the problem with nuclear power plants is that the NRC will require the contractor to re-engineer the plant and rip out installed APPROVED equipment in the middle of the build to replace it with NEW equipment just approved. If they would approve the plans up front and not make the contractor change practically everything (several times) in mid build, then we would see nuke power plants pop up all over and replace most of the coal burning plants.

[seppel]

use nuclear power plants to generate hydrogen. you will even be able to sell that to some green wackos.