Posted on 01/12/2005 10:20:37 PM PST by Fenris6
Electoral fraud. It is a grave and growing threat to our democracy. Major elections have turned on it, and it is only a matter of time until voter fraud precipitates a constitutional crisis. Consider what is happening now in Washington. Christine Gregoire was sworn in as Governor today, but a legal challenge to her "victory" is pending. It appears reasonably clear that the Democrats stole that race, and they will probably get away with it. Al Gore tried to steal the Presidency in 2000, and nearly succeeded...
It seems to me that we have two choices: upgrade our electoral system and guard its integrity with at least the fervor that we bring to preventing, say, underage drinking, or face the inevitable crisis when it comes.
And Sound Politics has this interesting item, which goes back to the national scene:
While doing the previous post, I ran across this very clear example of what I have begun to call distributed vote fraud. The New York Daily News found last August that 46,000 people were registered to vote in both Florida and New York. Of those 46,000, 68 percent were Democrats, 12 percent were Republicans, and 16 percent were neither. (And no, the newspaper does not explain why the numbers don't add up to 100 percent.)
No Democratic party leader organized these voters - at least as far as I know. Instead, they decided, by themselves, perhaps after talking with friends, to vote twice. And, just as I argued below, far more Democrats than Republicans decided, on their own, to commit vote fraud.
Anyone want to guess how many fraudulent votes Al Gore received in the 2000 election from this group?
(Excerpt) Read more at powerlineblog.com ...
I wouldn't assume that Democrats place any value on fair elections.
And, uh, speaking of affirming citizenship... how 'bout THIS idea?
I called MY Congressman and Senator's offices this past week. How about YOU?
Wait a minute. How 'bout photo ID and signatures affirming citizenship, voting only once, being properly registered, still living at the address of registration (and NOT BEING DEAD?) -- with penalties for perjury as well as voting law violations? And then mandate protections for the early mailing and late counting of armed forces personnel's absentee ballots in ALL elections -- with even TOUGHER penalties for poll worker and election commission violations. Absentee voters should have to send in a signed copy of their ID along with their ballot. And there needs to be a national database to cross-reference names (with social security numbers?) and make sure that when a person registers in a new district his registration is cancelled in the old district.
Thats why I mentioned DU and threw down the gauntlet. Perhaps I should be less subtle:
Hey DU Lurkers! Put up or Shut Up!
How was that? :)
Lets see if they would accept at least one common sense requirment, a picture I.D.!
good assumption.
They place value on power.
He brought up great points and I agree.
There are probably nationwide fraud efforts afoot and due to the dems unelectability, we should prepare to counter the fraud efforts or we could be in big trouble.
How do we do it?
The folks at Powerline get it.
Voter Fraud is real. Voter fraud is a serious problem. Voter fraud is mostly a democrat phenomenon, but it isn't a specific conspiracy.
The Democrat party knows it benefits from fraud, does all it can to make fraud easy to committ, but maintains perfect deniability on the issue making finding a smoking gun impossible.
You'll find an Irv Slosberg with a stolen vot-a-matic in Florida or more votes then voters in Democrat controlled precincts...but you won't find a memo from Kerry or Gore telling the locals to do it because they don't have to.
Oh, and btw, use the "permalink" option from Powerline to get the correct url;
http://powerlineblog.com/archives/009176.php
Yeah. How can anyone object to a picture ID. Take it to the voters that way and Congress would have to pass it or hear from their constituents. Dubya should come out during the SOTU and say "There were allegations of voter fraud in OH and WA. Let's fix at least part of the problem by requiring a photo ID. That is something that could be passed and signed before the 2006 elections. You need a photo ID to write a check. You need it to drive. You need it to pick up mail at the post office. Is voting less important?"
A more fundamental problem is the incentive for corruption by locally-elected election officials: voters are apt to favor an official who can get away with 'fudging' elections in their favor over one who does no such fudging.
I would suggest that having a revote when the number of 'fishy' votes attributable to precincts which cast the majority of their votes for the winner exceeds the margin of victory, and assessing the costs of such a revote to the jurisdictions sponsoring precincts in proportion to the number of fishy votes attributable to those jurisdictions' election officials, would do much to alleviate this problem.
Voters may be happy with an election official who fudges things in their favor and gets away with it, but they're going to be unhappy with an election official whose fudging causes the election of their candidate to get thrown out, and they'll be even more unhappy when they get the bill for their election official's malfeasance.
Indeed, the people who might normally defend election officials' questionable conduct if their candidate won would find themselves with little choice but to condemn it if their candidate lost. If an official is responsible for a 1,000 vote-ballot discrepancy and the official's preferred candidate only won by 200 votes, the blame for tossing the election would fall squarely on the shoulders of that official. It may well be that had the official acted honestly his candidate would have lost, but there would be no way for the candidate's supporters to admit that.
It's not a matter of if or when, but rather how much.
Why do your posts remind me of ransom notes pasted together from words cut out of newspapers?
A voter ID swipe card with a national database that brings up a photo ID is a necessity. Otherwise people shouldn't whine.
Bump for tomorrow.
Sounds good to me.
Dem's won't want that...it makes it hard to cheat!
Hey, I am an independant, and I'm interested in this too. I originally came here to lurk from DU, but I hang around both sites. People, both DU and FR have a lot in common (count out the extreme ends of either side -- frankly I don't believe Karl Rove was manipulating election day totals as they came in....and anyone who does needs to be smacked upside the head with something so they'll return to reality).
However, I do think both sides are VERY worried about voter fraud. Lets face it, facts or no, many Dems and many Republicans are doubting the integrity of the system. Dems worry about no paper trails and minority dinenfranchisement, GOP worries about dead people voting and false ballots popping up like in WA.
I own the domain www.votefraud.us and currently I'm trying to gather facts (not heresay or conspiracy, facts) on many elections around the country that seem questionable (There will be some on the presidental election, but as no one has presented me with hard facts as of yet all I have to speak of is some isolated voter disenfranchisement). Since the Washington election is a big issue right now, I would like to find math, information, ect. on this and post it up frontpage when I launch the site in a few days. To me it matters little whether Gregorie is a Dem.
Fraud is fraud. If she cheated, then it needs to come out and be prosecuted.
I also want to organize a 'vote protection' movement. I think picture IDs are a wonderful idea for voting. (who doesn't have a liscense or a DMV picture ID, anyway?) I also think paper trails for eVote machines are a good idea as well.
If you have any math, statistics, ect. that you think are important, please email it to quinanalopez@yahoo.com.
Someone commented eariler that DU Lurkers should put up or shut up. Well, I'm putting up. I think this could be an excellent moment to bring the sane people of DU and FR together for one second and promote the same agenda: electorial justice.
And please, to the mods, don't delete me. If you look at my posting history I have never tried to cause trouble or troll any threads. I hang out on both sites because I like to see both sides of the political spectrum. I am not, and will never be, a troll. I am speaking out because I am strongly against electorial fraud, whether it is a Dem or a Republican candidate. Because votes aren't stolen from candidates, they're stolen from voters. And if Gregorie stole votes, she didn't take them from Rossi, she took them from the voters.
And that matters. A lot.
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