Posted on 12/09/2004 11:15:44 PM PST by LouAvul
The law is not unconstitutional. The court has no authority to strike a law that is constitutional. The legislature can change the law.
This uproar can be attributed to a journalist's ingnorance of the law, not a bad court decision.
From what I can tell, the Court does not make it illegal to monitor your children's conversations. The decision merely says that such evidence will not be admitted in a trial.
yeah....
Needless to say it wasnt a screwdriver that took off my door, but my dad's hand strategically placed where the hinges were....then he chucked it across the room and got in my face, drill sergeant style....
Hey, I heard that before. Are you my dad?
Have you actually read the opinion?
This case is not about the eavesdropping of a parent on a minor child.
Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35
January 10, 1963
Current Communist Goals
EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Thursday, January 10, 1963
Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.
At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:
[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]
CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a "religious crutch."
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.
From what I remember from same law classes I took a while ago . . .
The evidence that the mother obtained via listening in on a conversation was obtained "illegally" and it, as well as any evidence obtained thereafter which can not be shown to have been obtainable without the "tainted" evidence, is not admissable.
It makes no difference whether the person obtaining the evidence is acting as an officer of the state. The theory being that the state could quite easily circumvent the 4th Ammendment by instigating an illegal act (B&E for example) to obtain evidence instead of obtaining a search warrent.
You example of a partner who decides to rat out does not fit in the above scenario as he was privvy to the conversation / the criminal act and can decide, of his own free will, to make public what he knows.
In the case in question, the judges have decided "correctly" and applied the law as written and intended. The DA should have known better than to use such evidence in trial (and the trial judge should have disallowed it!!). The re-trail will most likely let the perp go free - but this is a mistake of the DA and he should be held accountable.
here'a another one everybody will like:
In WS State at the age of 13 the police can no longer make you go home if you are a run away from your parents. In effect after your 13th birthday you can basicly go and come as you please and there's not a darn thing your parents can do about it.
The parents have tried to use the police to gain custody of their 13 year old homeless kids and have been told there is nothing the cops can do.
They're almost the American Debka File.
Did the woman's daughter refuse to be a witness? If this is the case the family really has some ethical questions they need to work out with the daughter. Perhaps a conversation out behind the woodshed would be appropriate.
There is another thread with a bit more info, and, the mother was "asked" by the sheriff to "keep her eyes open" (which could be construed to her being tasked).
BUT
That is not the point. The laws regarding this were written so that ANY evidence which was illegally obtained (whether by the state directly or not) can not be used. This is to protect against the state circumventing due process and the rules of evidence by claiming that the evidence was obtained by others when in fact the "others" were acting in the name of the state.
If LE had obtained the evidence, they would have required a wire tap order which would have to be presented in court as a part of the evidence and the defendant can confront this evidence / challange it. It is upon that state to prove the merits of the order. In the case of a mother listening in, the defendant has no chance to confront the state's involvement as both can simply claim that it was done as a matter of free will and the burden of proof switches to the defendant.
Again, this is a STUPID mistake on the part of the DA - he should have known better.
Oh really? Reading with "comprehension" reveals that it was a mother, eavesdropping on her minor child, i.e. her daughter.
So IOW, if someone has a 14-year old daughter, and she gets a phone call from some male that the mother has suspicions about (i.e. he does NOT sound like a 14-year old classmate), and mother listens in on the conversation, and the girl and her caller discuss their last sexual encounter, that sexual pervert *cannot* be convicted on that evidence alone?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.