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To: Light Speed
Vatican saw Hitlers ways from the early 30's...and still threw in with him....and so did the Catholic Church in other axis alligned or occupied countries who cozied up to Fascism.

First off, the pictures you posted... you've got Franz von Papen as the papal nuncio when he was actually the vice-chancellor... of course he would have brokered the concordat... have you read the concordat? You seem to believe the concordate was something other than what it was... you should read it for the truth of the matter and not the opinion of the Jack Chick website you post from. The books mentioned on that site are Jack Chick books and nothing in them is sourced - just garbage spewed by a guy who makes his living (and lives his faith) off of distorting history to defend his hatred of the Catholic Church.

You may spin past the rest of what I post here, but it is material that can be traced to letters and archives and legitimate authors.

Here are some of Pacelli’s words and deeds from the early 1920’s to 1946, together with comments and related statements by others.

1917-25 From the day of his arrival in Munich as nuncio to Bavaria in 1917, Eugenio Pacelli sets a pattern of conduct that he will follow throughout his entire priesthood—he helps the poor and suffering, opposes the violent, enunciates clear Christian principles, attempts to settle differences with the tyrannies of the right and left by patient negotiations, and seeks protection for the Church in her mission of spreading God's word. The post-war years in Germany are a time of hunger, poverty, armed radical groups, revolution, confusion, a time of madness. Pacelli stocks the Nuncio's residence with food and clothing for the poor, especially for the children. He visits prisoners of war, engages in endless discussions, is crippled by the flu, and attacked by revolutionaries. His attackers are members of a Communist movement called Spartakus, which wins control of Bavaria in 1919. The revolutionaries rake the Nuncio's residence with gun fire, and insult and threaten its occupants. After a frightening confrontation, Pacelli persuades them to leave without any blood being shed.

In the early 20’s the Nazis are just one of several violent fringe groups, but by 1923 they are able to gather more than 2,000 armed fanatics and attempt to seize control in Bavaria by force. They are unsuccessful, but their bloody putsch gives them martyrs and attracts more desperate men to their ranks.

By 1925 their potential for violence is clear to Pacelli, particularly after he reads Hitler’s Mein Kampf, which is published that year. Though hatred of Jews dominates Nazi rhetoric, hatred of the Church is not far behind. A few Nazis claim that the long-term threat of the Church makes it their most dangerous enemy. Pacelli tells friends in diplomatic circles that a "new manifestation" of the anti-Christ has arisen, and calls Hitler "obsessed," violent, ready "to walk over corpses" and destroy anything in his way. Naturally, he also says this to Rome.

1928 On March 28, in response to the concern of Pius XI and Pacelli, the Vatican's Holy Office issues a decree condemning Nazi racial hatred of Jews: "Moved by Christian charity, the Holy See is obligated to protect the Jewish people against unjust vexations and, just as it reprobates all rancor and conflicts between peoples, it particularly condemns unreservedly hatred against the people once chosen by God, the hatred that commonly goes by the name of anti-Semitism."

This decree is remembered and quoted at key moments in the coming years.

1929 Pacelli is appointed Papal Secretary of State.

1930 Cardinal Pacelli assumes new duties. L'Osservatore Romano, which speaks the mind of the Holy Father and Church, runs a series of articles from the office of Cardinal Secretary of State severely criticizing Nazism. The October 11, 1930 article declares: "Belonging to the National Socialist Party of Hitler is irreconcilable with the Catholic Conscience." These pieces are reprinted in diocesan newspapers around the world, especially in Germany, where bishops and priests emphasize that the teaching is official Church teaching.

1932 In the 1932 German elections Catholics overwhelmingly reject Hitler with less than 15% of Catholics voting for him. But with strong support from other constituencies in Germany, this election makes the Nazis a major party and leads directly to Hitler assuming total power.

1933 January 30, Hitler becomes Chancellor, and Germany is irrevocably changed.

The Concordat: "Damned if you do, damned if you don't." Under intense pressure from Hitler, including terrorizing members of the Catholic Center Party, Pacelli agrees to negotiate a legal agreement between Germany and the Holy See. The agreement, called a concordat, is a clever propaganda stunt by Hitler. Simply by asking the Church to negotiate, Hitler makes himself look good. Pacelli does not trust Hitler, but wants a legal basis on which to protest. Without a concordat there will be no legal grounds to appeal Nazi encroachments on the Church's freedom. The concordat defines Church rights within the greater rights of the State. Despite misgivings the concordat seems wise at the time. Cardinal Faulhaber of Munich comments: "With the concordat we are hanged, without the concordat we are hanged, drawn and quartered."

Back in Rome, Pacelli tells the British ambassador: "I had to choose between an agreement and the virtual elimination of the Catholic Church in the Reich." He says a pistol had been held to his head, and that he felt he was negotiating "with the devil himself."

You should educate yourself on the history surrounding this period... and you'd find that it was not the Catholic Church that caved to Nazism and Hitler. Look and see what made up the state church - the 'reich church'.

106 posted on 10/07/2004 9:17:02 PM PDT by american colleen
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To: american colleen
You are compelled to defend the Faith.....I understand.

Lets be clear on this one point.....not all the clergy,nor the majority of Catholics in WW-2 were crazed Jew haters like Jack Chick supposes.

I used Google image search and Yahoo....as I was looking for Franz Von Papen and the 1933 Concordat signatory with Pacelli.

I used the photos..which happened to be at a Jack Chick site..and the name info attached.

The photo's are legit....the names are legit.

There was no Jack Chick spew in my post.

Franz Papens quote is Franz Papen Himself ...not a Jack Chick corruption try.

I focused on Papen..as he is a dark figure in the Reichs history..and is clearly alligned to the Vatican.
Papen was part of dissolving many Catholic group realities in Germany...as they competed with the Hitler Youth movement....and there is more.

In my first post..I noted the intrigues of the Russian Orthodox Church...and then forwarded the Aurther Andersen Accounting cover up ..which the World Jewish Congress signed off on.

as I said....everything on the square.

I'm not going to post more dark details from WW-2.. the point is well made by the Photos....which speak volumes.

oh..and Yes...Papen was vice chancellor.

Tell me...are you ready to run to Papens defense too?

Nuremburg trial transcripts at Yale University....Avalon project.
hey..old Franz was aquitted....neato huh....did the Vatican have any part to play in that : )

Papen knew Hitler and knew his party,...knew exactly what the Catholic Church was getting into.
The Church signed the Concordat...the Church was part and parcell of the Reich there after.

Stories of Catholics hiding Jews and Catholics being interned in camps does not remove the main focus of opporendi.

They Church was complicit in enabling the Reich to raise up demented youth and did not resist the corruption which ultimately brought Germany to its ruin.

Germany is but one aspect...there is The Balkans,Italy...Spain.

107 posted on 10/07/2004 10:25:15 PM PDT by Light Speed
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