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Congress 101: If You Want Success, Don't Mess With the Gun Lobby
NY Times ^ | October 3, 2004 | DOROTHY SAMUELS

Posted on 10/02/2004 11:06:50 PM PDT by neverdem

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To: flashbunny; Joe Brower; Squantos; Tijeras_Slim; Eaker; coloradan
Ah yes, the 'rats at the NYT would like any guns we are allowed to keep to be triple-locked in govt approved safes. Subject to govt inspection, of course. That will make them very useful when the glass crashes in at 3AM.

No thanks.


21 posted on 10/03/2004 7:50:32 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: neverdem
"But the bill's positive aspects notwithstanding, it fails to address perhaps the most salient risk factor for troubled young people - the presence of a gun in the home"

And a car in the garage.

Who knows what factors lead one to commit suicide. Once the decision is made, will it be a jump from a bridge? A tall building? A knife? The tail-pipe of a car? A head in the oven with the gas turned on? A pistol? A shotgun? A plunge into deep waters? An over-dose of drugs? Suicide by cop? Hanging with a rope?

Who really knows how many fatal accidents occur on the highway which are deliberately caused by someone committing suicide? How many innocent lives are taken in the process?

Isn't it time to reduce the speed limit to five miles an hour? Makes as much sense as any gun control law.

22 posted on 10/03/2004 8:10:09 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: flashbunny; backhoe; All

Aside from suicide, I'm interested in homicide rates in other countries. IIRC, Larry Pratt said on Hardball in the late 1990s that the Mexican homicide rate, where firearms are prohibited, and most homicides were committed with knives, was greater that the U.S. rate of homicides by firearms. I tried to google the subject to no avail.


23 posted on 10/03/2004 8:50:48 AM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: Eastbound; Travis McGee

Like the bumper sticker at Los Alamos Lab's........striving for a work free safe zone.

IMO an Eddie Eagle sort of education program needs to be developed for schools that shows the good and bad of tools such as....but not limited to

Hand drill.......Building projects or drilling out a lock on a door.

Chain saw......Texas chain saw massacre or warmth from a wood stove and better looking landscape.

Syringe...........Drug Addiction or immunization and healing of people.

Automobile.....Driving it like a idiot or a means to get to the ball park or store safely.

Firearms.........Show a armed robbery and a policeman or armed homeowner defending or scaring off the bad.

Matches.........Lighting a candle or arson.


Bottom line in the lesson is everything can be used for good or evil. It's the individuals responsibility to use the tool as intended in a proper and legal manner. Remove the diversion of guilt or implied permission taught today that if you can get hold of it it's OK to do anything you want with it.....


24 posted on 10/03/2004 9:03:35 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: backhoe

Thanks for the links. Bookmarked.


25 posted on 10/03/2004 9:07:21 AM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: Squantos
Bottom line in the lesson is everything can be used for good or evil.

There is an exception to every rule.

26 posted on 10/03/2004 9:07:27 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Pay no attention to the Nattering Newbies of Negativism)
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To: Tijeras_Slim

Good Lord that's just nasty ! Send that to our bagpipe playing placitis FRiend.......:o)


27 posted on 10/03/2004 9:23:42 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: Squantos

What! And possibly be invited for dinner?


28 posted on 10/03/2004 9:25:48 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim (Pay no attention to the Nattering Newbies of Negativism)
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To: Morgan's Raider
prescription drugs -
exactly - do a search on Ritalin, Prozac etc for children - it's been well established for years but ignored until this past month - protecting the mega-industry/Drug companies...that these drugs are routinely pushed onto the youth of this country - and they have NEVER been tested nor approved for use in children!
Side effects include suicide and violence, All the school shootings were by children on these drugs - the shooting a few years ago by and adult at the day-trading place - was by a person on these drugs.
You want to stop some of these tragedies? Stop giving these drugs to the children.
They've finally passed a stipulation that a warning must be put on the pill bottles. Well, Congress - why don't you go after these legal drug pushers if you're really concerned about the violence and suicide?
Don't use the problem as an excuse for a different agenda.
Hundreds of thousands are killed each year in car accidents. Are we going to go back to horses?
Hundreds of thousands die each year in hospital/doctor 'accidents" - Who is trying to address this?
It would seem no one cares about these deaths - more per year than in any war - because it doesn't promote some political agenda.
How many people are killed per year with knives? Are we going to outlaw knives? (Maybe we can just take our meat in our hands and gnaw away.)
And should we get rid of all bridges and use only ferries?
(In my area, last year, we had a high schooler, depressed and on Prozac, put a rope around his neck and jump off a bridge. Miraculously, people acting fast were able to pull him up - his neck hadn't broken and after hospitalization, he survived. Should we take down that bridge and outlaw ropes?)
And Jimmy Carter closed down the mental intstitutions and turned these poor people in need of help out onto the streets with little to no recourse for help and treatment.
Yes, It's tragic that the gentleman lost his son - but let him go after the real problem...Stop drugging our kids!
29 posted on 10/03/2004 9:45:47 AM PDT by maine-iac7
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To: Tijeras_Slim; chookter

Yo Chook ! T. Slim's bringing the "whine" for the Hagas Helper......


30 posted on 10/03/2004 9:52:53 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. ©)
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To: neverdem
".... to nail Bambi with an AK-47,..."

I always wonder when this phrase or a variant is used if these ignoramuses know that the typical load for an AK-47 is considered a bit light for deer hunting.

31 posted on 10/03/2004 10:06:29 AM PDT by muir_redwoods
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To: neverdem

32 posted on 10/03/2004 10:23:27 AM PDT by backhoe (Just a Keyboard Cowboy, ridin' the Trackball into the Dawn of Information...)
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To: Travis McGee
Ah yes, the 'rats at the NYT would like any guns we are allowed to keep to be triple-locked in govt approved safes. Subject to govt inspection, of course. That will make them very useful when the glass crashes in at 3AM.

Of course, after gun locks are mandated, the NYT will push for off-site firearm storage since parents cannot be trusted to use the locks properly.

Off-site storage means you must store your firearm at a target range or other 'approved' facility. You may only retrieve your firearm with a valid permit and reason.

Locks are only an interim step and not 'logical'.

33 posted on 10/03/2004 10:23:44 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (9-11 is your Peace Dividend)
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To: muir_redwoods
I always wonder when this phrase or a variant is used if these ignoramuses know that the typical load for an AK-47 is considered a bit light for deer hunting.

I don't think you need to wonder. Most of these anti-gun duckheads are absolutely clueless and would feel put upon to learn the facts about the issue, IMHO.

34 posted on 10/03/2004 10:25:25 AM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: neverdem
Dorothy, you're not in Kansas anymore.

For that matter, planet Earth.

35 posted on 10/03/2004 10:25:52 AM PDT by kstewskis (BUSH-GIBSON 2004)
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To: neverdem

These morons just don't get it...the 2nd Amendment has NOTHING, ZERO, NADA, NIL, ZILCH to do with hunting.


36 posted on 10/03/2004 10:30:43 AM PDT by Guillermo (Only morons think the stock market changes because of day to day Presidential politics)
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To: maine-iac7
- do a search on Ritalin, Prozac etc for children - it's been well established for years but ignored until this past month - protecting the mega-industry/Drug companies...that these drugs are routinely pushed onto the youth of this country - and they have NEVER been tested nor approved for use in children!

The FDA has approved for use in kiddies both Ritalin(methylphenidate) for attention deficit disorder and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder(ADD/ADHD), and Prozac(fluoxetine), a selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor(SSRI) for depression.

All the school shootings were by children on these drugs - the shooting a few years ago by and adult at the day-trading place - was by a person on these drugs.

I don't doubt you, but could you provide references? I believe Klebold may have been prescribed one of the newer SSRI antidepressants, but I'm not sure he was taking them at the time. There was a recent advisory to watch anyone who had been recently started on these SSRI antidepressants for about the first month of therapy, which was when they were most likely to be at risk for suicidal ideation. I approve the use of these drugs only as a last resort.

Hundreds of thousands die each year in hospital/doctor 'accidents" - Who is trying to address this?

Remind me tomorrow, and I'll get you the references to show that you that the original study is probably a gross exaggeration. I'm gone for the day. Adios

37 posted on 10/03/2004 10:57:26 AM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi min oi)
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To: maine-iac7

"How many people are killed per year with knives? Are we going to outlaw knives? (Maybe we can just take our meat in our hands and gnaw away.)"

Oh, please! They don't want us to eat meat, either.


38 posted on 10/03/2004 10:58:06 AM PDT by SASsySIGster (SAS CT Chapter)
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To: Squantos; Travis McGee
" . . . an Eddie Eagle sort of education program needs to be developed for schools that shows the good and bad of tools . . . "

Excellent idea, Squantos. That education we know begins at home and should continue through school until the child 'gets it.'

Doesn't it seem strange that liberals don't mind being held up at gunpoint and possibly shot, knowing that no amount of gun control will prevent it? I firmly believe that they would rather be shot during a robbery than they would by an irate patriot whose philosophy of freedom is different than theirs.

Hence gun control and/or gun confiscation against law-abiding Citizens and patriots as a measure to protect and promote their 'liberalism' -- not as a means to reduce crime, for it is common knowlege that even liberals will admit that gun control does not reduce crime.

In other words, they would rather have a high rate of crime than to be rightly challenged for their political philosophy -- a philosophy that is anti-thetical to the right to self-determination.

39 posted on 10/03/2004 11:04:03 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: neverdem

I finally figured out the ONLY good thing about the AWB. It was crucial in ridding the Congress of many of the gun grabbing RATS and liberals!!!


40 posted on 10/03/2004 11:16:49 AM PDT by DMZFrank
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