MistyCA asked me to post this for her
She has additional data.
They probably had resignation documents ready to go, but the flap over CBS memos made them realize that passing off a fake, post dated resignation letter might not work.
So is it possible that he never did quit, and is still a member?
Assassins "R" Us? According to Corbis, John Kerry WAS the "Head of the VVAW" as of January 24, 1973
Not in the mainstream media, certainly, but it has often been discussed on FreeRepublic.
As yet there has been no evidence that Kerry actually took part in the discussions. But contrary to his denials, he attended the meeting. And he permitted the NY Times to continually speak about him as an officer of the group after he pretends to have quit.
At the very least, kerry did not inform authorities that he knew of a plot to kill senators.
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In 1973 Stennis was almost fatally wounded by two gunshots after being mugged outside his Washington home.
Kerry continued as spokesman after the meeting, and never publicly renounced the VVAW. Also, I believe he was still in the Naval Reserve when he attended the meeting. This means that as a member of the US Armed Services, he attended a meeting in which assassination of US government officials was discussed. Further, it is clear from the context that these assassinations were part of an attempt to defeat the US Military during a time of war. He never disclosed this information to his superiors. Isn't there a term for this?
ping
Interesting also is the fact that Del Sandusky, the Swiftboat vet who has been most in support of Kerry, and he lives in Gainesville, Florida. How connected is he to Scott Camil??
>>>>>In a phone interview with the Sun this week, Mr. Camil did not dispute either the account in the Nicosia book or in the oral history.He said he plans to accept an offer by the Florida Kerry organization to become active in Mr. Kerry’s presidential campaign. Campaign aides to Mr. Kerry invited Mr.Camil to a meeting for the senator in Orlando last week, but they did not meet directly. <<<<<<<<<<
So we are having an Attempted Assassin join the Kerry Presidential campaign??????Whoaaaaaaaaaaaa
A variant of this story has been used by so many Vietnam Veteran wannabes it is pathetic. The idea of sneaking off alone at night and killing people is just laughable if you even have the remotest idea of the realities of Vietnam. If he killed civilians he is a first class war criminal. If he killed VC he would only have done it once, maybe twice and then they would have waited for him. I'd like to see this dirtbag produce one single veteran he knew in Vietnam who can back up his claims. There was a book written in the early 70's called 365 DAYS and it was written by an army doctor who treated VIetnam veterans in physical rehabilitation. It was full of stories like this and it turned out they were all lies the veterans told him for entertainment.
I wonder whether Mary Mapes has been working on this story for five years.
Kerry may have resigned from the national Executive Board, but he remained active with the organization well into 1972 and maybe into 1973.
| Publication:The New York Sun; | Date:Mar 22, 2004; | Section:Front page; | Page:1 |
KANSAS MEETING AT ISSUE
By THOMAS H. LIPSCOMB Special to the Sun
A Vietnam veteran who said he remembers John Kerry participating in a 1971 Kansas City meeting at which an assassination plot was discussed says an official with the Kerry presidential campaign called him this month and pressured him to change his story.
The veteran, John Musgrave, says he was called twice by the head of Veterans for Kerry, John Hurley, while a reporter for the Kansas City Star worked on a follow-up piece to a New York Sun article about the November 1971 meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War at which a plot to kill U.S. senators was voted down. Asked by The New York Sun if he felt pressured, Mr. Musgrave said, “In the second call I did.” Mr. Musgrave said Mr. Hurley said Mr. Kerry had told him “he was definitely not in Kansas City.”
According to Mr. Musgrave, Mr. Hurley said, “Why don’t you refresh your memory and call that reporter back?”
A spokesman for Mr. Kerry’s presidential campaign, David Wade, last week issued a statement to the Sun, following a week of denials, that said “we accept” Mr. Kerry’s presence in Kansas City as a “historical footnote.”
By then, the recollections of six witnesses, along with minutes and FBI records, placed Mr. Kerry at the Kansas City meeting.
But the news of the calls from the campaign to Mr. Musgrave may move the episode from what the campaign is describing as a “historical footnote” to a matter that involves the contemporary behavior of Mr. Kerry and his campaign.
Mr. Musgrave said he received three Purple Hearts in Vietnam. After the third Purple Heart for wounds by three 7.62 rounds, one to the jaw and two to the left chest, Mr. Musgrave refused the standard release from further service in the combat zone offered Marines with three Purple Hearts and tried to return to his unit, he said.
But because of the extent of his injuries he was retired from the Marines with full disability and sent home, he said.
Mr. Musgrave said, “I told Hurley it was my first meeting as a state officer of the VVAW, and I remember John being there. I remember what I remember.”
When asked whom he is supporting in the presidential election, Mr. Musgrave replied, “I am undecided. But I am sure not voting for some guy who called me a liar.”
Mr. Hurley did not return calls for comment for this article.
Another related episode in which the Kerry campaign had to handle questions about Vietnam Veterans Against the War involves a statement by Mr. Kerry himself.
At a Capitol Hill press conference on March 11, 2004, Mr. Kerry was asked by a reporter if he thought his credibility had been affected by his close association with Al Hubbard, a key VVAW colleague of Mr. Kerry’s who had appointed him to the leadership of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War.
Mr. Hubbard claimed to be a wounded Air Force officer who had served at Danang during the Vietnam War. He appeared with Mr. Kerry many times, including the “Meet the Press” interview after Mr.Kerry’s Senate testimony about American “war crimes” in Vietnam.
But Mr. Hubbard was never in Vietnam, was never wounded, and was not an officer, as subsequent research and Mr. Kerry himself have pointed out.
Mr. Kerry answered this month that he had not spoken to Mr.Hubbard since the week of April 19, 1971.
Yet the Kerry campaign now apparently accepts that Mr. Kerry was at the November 12 to 15, 1971,VVAW meeting. Mr. Musgrave said he remembers that at that meeting, Mr. Kerry challenged Mr. Hubbard’s continuing to maintain his false claims to being an Air Force officer wounded at Danang.
“Hubbard sort of sat there with his eyes downcast and Mike Oliver really did all the arguing for him,” Mr. Musgrave said. “And suddenly Hubbard got up and said he was having an ulcer attack and had to get to New York immediately to see his doctor and ran out of the room.You would think we didn’t have any doctors or hospitals in Kansas City.”
In addition, the New York Times reported on an August 29, 1971, fundraising party for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War at which “Mr. Kerry and Al Hubbard, another veteran, explained some of the aims of the organization.”John Kerry's Role as a Vietnam Anti-War Activist Poses Challenges to His Campaign
| Publication:The New York Sun; | Date:Mar 15, 2004; | Section:National; | Page:4 |
Group Debated and Voted Down Plan To Assassinate Senators
By THOMAS H. LIPSCOMB Special to the Sun
Another witness has come forward to attest that John Kerry was at a November 1971 meeting of Vietnam Veterans Against the War at which the group debated and voted down a plan to assassinate senators who supported the Vietnam War.
A Kerry campaign spokesman, David Wade, has said Mr. Kerry did not attend the Kansas City meeting, and Kerry biographer Douglas Brinkley has said Mr. Kerry told him he was a “noshow.”
“Kerry may have resigned shortly after that meeting or at the meeting…” recalled the VVAW Kansas State coordinator at the time, John Musgrave, in an interview that was published Saturday in the Kansas City Star. Mr. Musgrave is the third VVAW member at the time that has been named as seeing Mr. Kerry at Kansas City. Mr. Musgrave specifically remembered Mr. Kerry’s attendance and his speaking against the murder plot against the senators.
The Star cited the national director of Veterans for Kerry, a former VVAW member, John Hurley, as saying: “I think he is confusing the St. Louis and Kansas City meetings.”
But if Mr. Hurley is acknowledging that Mr. Kerry was present at the earlier St. Louis meeting, he is disagreeing with the Kerry spokesman, Mr.Wade, and calling into doubt a recent statement by Mr. Kerry.
At a Capitol Hill press conference Thursday, Mr. Kerry was asked by a reporter if he thought his credibility had been affected by his close association with Al Hubbard, a key VVAW colleague of Mr. Kerry’s who had appointed him to the leadership of Vietnam Veterans Against the War.
Mr. Hubbard claimed to be a wounded Air Force officer who had served at Danang during the Vietnam War. He appeared with Mr. Kerry many times, including the “Meet the Press” interview after Mr. Kerry’s Senate testimony about American “war crimes” in Vietnam. But Mr. Hubbard was never in Vietnam, was never wounded, and was not an officer, as subsequent research and Mr.Kerry himself have pointed out.
Mr.Kerry answered he had not spoken to Mr. Hubbard since the week of April 19, 1971. But in the New York Times of August 30, 1971, reporter Enid Nemy, covering an East Hampton fund-raising party for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, states: “Later, Mr. Kerry and Al Hubbard, another veteran, explained some of the aims of the organization….”
Those present included journalists Jimmy Breslin and Peter Maas, Bruce Jay Friedman, Tom Paxton, and Patricia Kennedy Lawford.
In separate interviews with The New York Sun, both VVAW member Terry DuBose and Kerry biographer Mr. Brinkley have confirmed Mr. Kerry’s presence at the July St. Louis steering committee meeting of the VVAW.
Gerald Nicosia, author of the 2001 book “Home to War,” also writes that Mr. Kerry was at that meeting. In a memorable account, Mr. Nicosia said Mr. Kerry “resigned from the executive committee” after a spectacular argument with Mr. Hubbard.“Kerry made a long speech punctuated at frequent intervals by the demand: ‘Who is Al Hubbard?’” and “challenged him to prove he was a Vietnam veteran.” According to the book, Mr. Hubbard “freaked out” and screamed insults at Mr. Kerry.
In the Kansas City Star account, one of the three veterans who has placed Mr. Kerry at the Kansas City meeting, Randy Barnes, first was quoted as saying Mr. Kerry was in Kansas City, which is what he had stated in his interview with the Sun.
According to the Star, “upon reflection later in the day [Barnes stated] that he could ‘not be absolutely certain’ that Kerry was in Kansas City for the meeting.”
Terry DuBose, who initially remembered a great deal, began having failures of memory on a third call. And Scott Camil, who in his interview with the Sun could not recall whether Mr. Kerry was at the Kansas City meeting, suddenly remembered in talking with the Star several days later that Mr. Kerry was not.
In a March 13, 2004, story, the New York Times cited concern among Democrats about “careless utterances of a fatigued, or undisciplined candidate,” but Mr. Wade reassured that “every statement he made we stand by.”
I was just googling and found an article in the LAT from April of this year.
Others probably know this, but it saddened me to read that all those medals that were thrown away by Kerry and his guys, sat in a storage room in 3 boxes for over 20 years or so.
But in the 90s they were running out of room, so it was reluctantly decided that the medals that had been thrown away once, would now be thrown out for good, so were taken away to be melted down.
Link is here but it requires a signup:
http://www.latimes.com/la-na-kerry23apr23,1,66281.story