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Bush Piloted Guard Trainers Before He Quit (AP buries new info on hoax)
AP ^ | Sep 10, 2:40 AM EDT | MATT KELLEY

Posted on 09/10/2004 12:17:42 AM PDT by Rome2000

WASHINGTON (AP) -- George W. Bush began flying a two-seat training jet more frequently and twice required multiple attempts to land a one-seat fighter in the weeks just before he quit flying for the Texas Air National Guard in 1972, his pilot logs show.The logs show Bush flew nine times in T-33 trainers in February and March 1972, including eight times in one week and four of those as a co-pilot.

Bush, a first lieutenant, flew T-33s only twice in the previous six months and three times in the year ending July 31, 1971.

Meanwhile, questions were raised Thursday about the authenticity of newly unearthed memos purporting to have been written by one of Bush's commanders in 1972 and 1973. The memos, which were publicized by CBS "60 Minutes", say Bush ignored a direct order from a superior officer and lost his status as a Guard pilot because he failed to meet military performance standards and undergo a required physical exam. The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the documents are fake.

"They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years."

Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript - a smaller, raised "th" in "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron" - as evidence indicating forgery

Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said.

"I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after reviewing copies. She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft Word software

(Excerpt) Read more at breakingnews.nypost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: ltbush; tang
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1 posted on 09/10/2004 12:17:42 AM PDT by Rome2000
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To: Rome2000
Too bad the geniuses at 60 Minutes relied on the word of their friends at the DNC about the "new documents" instead of practicing responsible journalism
2 posted on 09/10/2004 12:20:50 AM PDT by Rome2000 (The ENEMY for Kerry!!!!!)
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To: Rome2000
and twice required multiple attempts to land a one-seat fighter in the weeks just before he quit flying for the Texas Air National Guard in 1972, his pilot logs show.

Let's see if John McCain wants to talk about THIS!

3 posted on 09/10/2004 12:23:36 AM PDT by Howlin (What's the Font Spacing, Kenneth?)
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To: Howlin
Its bizarre how AP tries to bury the real story with this irrelevant headline and info on how many attempts it took Bush to land a plane in 1972.

Maniacs.

4 posted on 09/10/2004 12:29:21 AM PDT by Rome2000 (The ENEMY for Kerry!!!!!)
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To: Rome2000

I wouldn't say it's buried. The idea that the new documents are fake is in the same paragraph as the first mention of the documents.

I admit that the title and first couple of paragraphs are disjointed, but most of the article seems to be about the fact that the new documents are suspect.

A better headline would be "Fake Documents Reveal New Information About Bush National Guard Service"


5 posted on 09/10/2004 12:34:34 AM PDT by VisualizeSmallerGovernment (Question Liberal Authority)
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To: VisualizeSmallerGovernment
Sep 10, 2:40 AM EDT

Bush Piloted Guard Trainers Before He Quit


WASHINGTON (AP) -- George W. Bush began flying a two-seat training jet more frequently and twice required multiple attempts to land a one-seat fighter in the weeks just before he quit flying for the Texas Air National Guard in 1972, his pilot logs show.

The logs show Bush flew nine times in T-33 trainers in February and March 1972, including eight times in one week and four of those only as a co-pilot. Bush, then a first lieutenant, flew in T-33s only twice in the previous six months and three times in the year ending July 31, 1971.

The records also show Bush required two passes to land an F-102A fighter on March 12 and April 10, 1972. His last flight as an Air National Guard pilot was on April 16.

Meanwhile, questions were raised Thursday about the authenticity of newly unearthed memos purporting to have been written by one of Bush's commanders in 1972 and 1973. The memos, which were publicized by CBS News on its "60 Minutes" program, say Bush ignored a direct order from a superior officer and lost his status as a Guard pilot because he failed to meet military performance standards and undergo a required physical exam.

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The network defended the memos, saying its experts who examined the memos concluded they were authentic documents produced by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian.

But Killian's son, one of Killian's fellow officers and an independent document examiner questioned the memos Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an unsigned memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance review.

"It just wouldn't happen," he said. "No officer in his right mind would write a memo like that."

The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the documents are fake.

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"They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in 1984.

Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software. Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, pointed to a superscript - a smaller, raised "th" in "111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron" - as evidence indicating forgery.

Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said.

"I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley, Ariz. She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft Word software.

The Defense Department released Bush's pilot logs this week under pressure from a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by The Associated Press. The logs do not explain why Bush was flying T-33s or why he twice needed multiple approaches to make landings.

White House spokesman Trent Duffy said Thursday said he had no information on the reasons behind the multiple-approach landings or the surge in training-jet flights.

"He did his training and was honorably discharged," Duffy said.

Former Air National Guard officials contacted by the AP said there could be reasons for the trainer flights and multiple-approach landings which have nothing to do with Bush's pilot skills.

Bush could have flown T-33s so many times because his unit did not have enough F-102A jets available that week, for example, said retired Maj. Gen. Don Shepperd a former head of the Air National Guard. Another former Air National Guard chief, retired Maj. Gen. Paul A. Weaver, said he saw nothing unusual about Bush making more than one landing attempt.

"It doesn't mean anything to have multiple approaches," Weaver said.

Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service became a focus of Democratic criticism this week amid a flurry of new reports about his activities. Democrats say Bush shirked his National Guard duties, a claim Bush denies.

Republican critics have accused Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a decorated Vietnam combat veteran, of fabricating the incidents which led to his five medals.

Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968, serving more than a year on active Air Force duty while being trained to fly F-102A jets. He was honorably discharged from the Guard in October 1973 and left the Air Force Reserves in May 1974.

The first four months of 1972 are at the beginning of a controversial period in Bush's Guard service. After taking his last flight in April 1972, Bush went for six months without showing up for any training drills. In September 1972 he received permission to transfer to an Alabama Guard unit so he could work on a political campaign there.

That May, Bush also skipped a required yearly medical examination. In response, his commanders grounded Bush on Aug. 1, 1972.

Bush's pilot logs showed regular training in the F-102A until Feb. 9, 1972, when he flew 1.4 hours as the pilot of a T-33. After seven more flights in the F-102A, Bush made eight more T-33 flights between March 9 and March 15, including the four as co-pilot.

He flew an F-102A on March 12 and eight more times in April 1972.

© 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

 Purchase this AP story for reprint.


6 posted on 09/10/2004 12:39:29 AM PDT by Rome2000 (The ENEMY for Kerry!!!!!)
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To: Rome2000

Thank you for the post.

I would like to comment on the inferences made relative to the resident's T-33 time and the two-pass final landing in the 102.

I am an old Naval Aviator -- with over 800 carrier landings -- some of which were made on the old Essex Class straight deckers. And, a Tonkin Gulf Yacht Clubber.

I did a three year tour as an instuctor at Forrest Sherman Field in the early '60s.

From my experience and vantage point, there is nothing derogatory AT ALL about getting some warm-up time as a co-pilot in T-33 if one has been out of the cockpit for a spell. Further, it is not only good sense, and usually required -- either informally or in hard copy by aviation commands.

Further, I remember giving (then Lcdr) Jerry Denton a special instrument rating check flight in late 1961. He had not flown that type aircraft for some time, and we had to take three flights before he "passed" -- essentially warming up emergency skills, etc. to the point we both felt was suitable for all weather flying, at the level we performed on a daily basis.

So, most of the check flights, etc. that are conducted -- as well as basic refresher -- is done with the goal of long-term survival in a tight-knit, high-risk community.

As an aside, Jerry went on to command an A-6 squadron and was zapped over the North and was incarcerated for 7 long years. Retired a Vice Admiral and Senator from Alabama. A truly great American -- as is his wife, Jane.

And Kerry was in country for less tan 4 months. Give me a break. I hold John Kerry in such contempt that I dare not go on.

In conclusion, I hope Rather and Company get nailed to the tree for this blatant hit piece. Thanx.


7 posted on 09/10/2004 12:41:13 AM PDT by dk/coro
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To: Rome2000

I'm glad AP is doing this. It's convinced me that I need to send Bush another $500 and find the time to actually do some work for the campaign. I think I'll send letters of appreciation for this to Rather, the CBS president, AP and the kerry campaign. They've truly helped me to see the light and should get acknowledged for this.


8 posted on 09/10/2004 12:42:22 AM PDT by Bonaparte (and guess who sighs his lullabies, to nights that never end...)
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To: Rome2000
"...the geniuses at 60 Minutes relied on the word of their friends at the DNC..."

If, as you say, CBS relied on the DNC (actually, it was the kerry campaign that gave them these docs), then why did they say they "thoroughly investigated" and consulted forensic experts being airing the story? They obvious didn't do that and they now admit it. That means CBS did not rely on any assurances from the kerry campaign. It means that CBS lied.

9 posted on 09/10/2004 12:46:26 AM PDT by Bonaparte (and guess who sighs his lullabies, to nights that never end...)
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To: Rome2000

I don't even understand what the title and first two paragraphs are trying to convey. The title might as well read "Bush Had Job Before College".

The first 2 paragraphs seem to be trying to make something sinister out of the fact that Bush was a co-pilot at times and that he had to re-attempt some landings.

One thing that always bothered me about this story the first 20 times it was dragged out- the Media is trying to make it sound as if flying fighter jets during the cold war was some sort of criminal offense. It was an important job and thank goodness somebody was there to do it.


10 posted on 09/10/2004 12:49:10 AM PDT by VisualizeSmallerGovernment (Question Liberal Authority)
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To: dk/coro
"...I hope Rather and Company get nailed to the tree for this blatant hit piece."

What Rather and CBS did was lie to the American public in an effort to put another liar and traitor by the name of john kerry into our White House. Whatever support we've been giving the President, I think it's time to up the ante. I'm cutting the man another large check (well, it's large for me) and arranging to volunteer with his campaign. Before today, I felt I'd done my bit. But not now. I want john kerry to suffer the worst electoral defeat in the history of these elections. I really didn't think it was possible for me to hate that man any more than I already did. I was mistaken. Tomorrow, I'll have the privilege and honor of meeting John O'Neill and I'll also have the pleasure of personally handing him another check.

Thankyou for your service to our country, sir.

11 posted on 09/10/2004 1:01:58 AM PDT by Bonaparte (and guess who sighs his lullabies, to nights that never end...)
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To: Bonaparte

Boycott CBS and email their sponsors until CBS issues a retraction and/or an apology to Bush and to America.


12 posted on 09/10/2004 1:06:26 AM PDT by Capricam
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To: Rome2000

I hate the AP with a passion.


13 posted on 09/10/2004 1:07:00 AM PDT by M1911A1
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To: dk/coro
Thank you.
14 posted on 09/10/2004 1:09:42 AM PDT by Doug Fiedor
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To: Rome2000
GOD BLESS FREEPERS!

BTW Everyone here does know that he signed up in May and his duty year went from May to the following April.

It seems to me that just maybe because he was transferring to a base were he wouldn't be able to fly, he got as much time as he could in the cockpit because, oh... I don't know, maybe HE LIKED FLYING JETS!

And then in `73 he accumulated 56 points during the summer (6 more than he needed for his last year's commitment) and asked to get out so he could go to school - Harvard no less.

He got his Honorable Discharge because he met his obligations and left for school.

This is my story and I'm sticking to it unless anyone here can point out a flaw. (Like I'd have to ask!)


Stay Strong,
Fuzzy122

15 posted on 09/10/2004 1:10:09 AM PDT by fuzzy122 (GBGB [God Bless George Bush] and the Armed Forces ... Arnold and Zell too!)
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To: Rome2000

re: "said he saw nothing unusual about Bush making more than one landing attempt"

Maybe they were approaches made during training and he chose the option of a missed approach to hone his skills. I hear pilots all the time late at night working on their instrument rating or currency requirements advise they would like to make an approach and will be exercising the option. It would be foolish to think that every instrument approach will be right the first time and there's no need to go through what happens when you need to abort the landing and try again. If your intention was to make a pilot look bad, not that anyone in the press would be even remotely interested in portraying George Bush's military life and pilot skills as anything less than outstanding, you could truthfully (a Clinton-Truth as it were) say that he had made two or three approaches before his full stop landing.


16 posted on 09/10/2004 1:16:28 AM PDT by jwpjr
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To: Capricam
"Boycott CBS and email their sponsors until CBS issues a retraction and/or an apology to Bush and to America."

Oh, I'm doing that, Capricam. But for me, it's too late for an apology. I started sending the faxes tonight. I told these companies that if they advertise with CBS at all I won't be buying their products ever.

17 posted on 09/10/2004 1:17:12 AM PDT by Bonaparte (and guess who sighs his lullabies, to nights that never end...)
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To: M1911A1
"I hate the AP with a passion."

They've finally caught with Reuters. Liars to their ashes.

18 posted on 09/10/2004 1:18:47 AM PDT by Bonaparte (and guess who sighs his lullabies, to nights that never end...)
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To: M1911A1
"caught" should read "caught up."

'scuse.

19 posted on 09/10/2004 1:19:22 AM PDT by Bonaparte (and guess who sighs his lullabies, to nights that never end...)
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To: jwpjr

I don't really get this focus on the President making multiple landing attacks.

Even if the man was a completely lousy pilot (I'm not saying he was - I very much doubt it, but just for the sake of argument), that's pretty much irrelevant.

He did his duty - some people do their duty brilliantly, some do it poorly. As long as they did it to the best of their ability, that's honourable service.

You can't expect everyone to be brilliant - but you can expect them to do their job. And that should be the only issue here.


20 posted on 09/10/2004 2:37:55 AM PDT by naturalman1975 (Sure, give peace a chance - but si vis pacem, para bellum.)
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