Stay safe !
Posted on 09/05/2004 6:48:58 PM PDT by neverdem
BESLAN, Russia, Sept. 5 — Inside the charred, bullet-pocked wreckage of Middle School No. 1 lies evidence of the terror Russia faces: two parts of the library's wooden floor had been pried up, evidently by the heavily armed attackers who seized the school and held 1,000 hostages for 52 hours.
Beneath the schools first-floor library, investigators now suspect, the attackers had secreted a cache of weapons or other equipment weeks, perhaps months before their brutal attack, possibly during a seemingly innocuous summer renovation, officials said.
While investigators have only begun to piece together the details of the worst act of terror to strike Russia, the holes in the library's floor, which might easily be overlooked in the gruesome carnage of the school, underscored the sophistication and coordination that has accompanied the radicalization of the attacks that have convulsed the country.
The attackers — said to include Chechens, Ingush, ethnic Russians and some still-unidentified foreigners — followed a plan after the school's seizure with precision and alacrity, forcing their hostages to help place explosives and build barricades. They wore NATO-issued camouflage. They carried gas masks, compasses and first-aid kits, communicated with hand-held radios and brought along two sentry dogs, apparently as expertly trained as the attackers themselves.
"They knew the geography of the school grounds like their own backyard," the chief spokesman for Russia's Federal Security Service, Sergei N. Ignatchenko, said in a telephone interview on Saturday. "This allowed them to choose sniper positions and place booby-traps on all possible access routes."
The depth of planning evident in the horrifying siege, which by today's official count left 338 hostages dead, mirrored that of a series of attacks that have roiled Russia, beginning with a similar siege of a Moscow theater during a performance of a musical called "Nord-Ost" in October 2002 and continuing through a grim litany of suicide bombings and other strikes that culminated with shocking brutality here last week.
Like Al Qaeda's militants, which President Vladimir V. Putin and others argue provide succor to Chechnya's separatists, the extremists believed to be behind all attacks have managed to dispatch cells of ideologues who spend extended periods organizing and carrying out spectacular, unnerving attacks, often suicidal ones.
The attackers — believed to be members of a contingent led by Shamil Basayev, Chechnya's most notorious and lethal rebel commander — have moved seamlessly between the North Caucasus and Moscow, while evading Russia's extensive, if at times ineffective, security apparatus. They have so despite particular scrutiny that falls on anyone appearing to be Chechen.
In February, a female suicide bomber, possibly with an accomplice, destroyed a Moscow subway car, killing at least 41 early-morning commuters. In May, a bomb planted beneath a stadium grandstand killed Chechnya's president, Akhmad Kadyrov, as he watched a Victory Day parade in Grozny. In June, hundreds of insurgents used stolen uniforms of the local police to seize much of Ingushetia's capital for hours, stopping and executing the real police officers who raced to reinforce their colleagues, killing nearly 100.
On Aug. 21, fighters carried out a similar raid in Grozny, with similar tactics, killing at least 22. Three days later, bombs believed to be carried by two Chechen women destroyed separate passenger airliners simultaneously, killing 90 people. A week later, a female suicide blew herself up outside the Rizhskaya subway station in Moscow, killing 10. Hours after that the siege in Beslan began.
"They have shown they are able to do everything they want in each corner of Russia," said Aleksei Malashenko, an analyst at the Carnegie Moscow Center.
When the Romans were unable to reach an accomodation with an enemy, and had found the enemy so intractable as to be incapable of keeping a peace agreement, they would, after conquering, kill every living thing in the enemy's territory: men, women, children, dogs, horses - everything.
The Romans did not do this out of savagery, but because they had determined over the course of hundreds of years that such measures were the only effective means of causing barbarians to fear Rome enough that they would stop committing depradations on the fringes of the Empire.
"Like Al Qaeda's militants, which President Vladimir V. Putin and others argue provide succor to Chechnya's separatists, the extremists believed to be behind all attacks have managed to dispatch cells of ideologues who spend extended periods organizing and carrying out spectacular, unnerving attacks, often suicidal ones.
The attackers — believed to be members of a contingent led by Shamil Basayev, Chechnya's most notorious and lethal rebel commander — have moved seamlessly between the North Caucasus and Moscow, while evading Russia's extensive, if at times ineffective, security apparatus. They have so despite particular scrutiny that falls on anyone appearing to be Chechen."
I'm doing fine, thank you....and I hope you're doing the same.
Semper Fi
Stay safe !
Make the decision beforehand and announce, if they destroy a school, factory, office, movie theater or restaurant building in your community, you will destroy their mosques. Every mosque within 50 miles!
Tell the local Islamics that because they didn't go to our FBI or police department and tell them about the attack rumors they heard this will be the price they will pay.
You will make sure that every business in town that is owned or operated by a Muslim will be off limits to American citizens. They'll go broke in a week.
We won't have to force them to go back to their homeland. When they realize that we won't hire them or patronize their businesses, they'll leave voluntarily abandoning their homes because nobody will be allowed to buy it.
Yes, American civilians die in terrorist attacks but if you make sure that the response in your area is so strong and so severe then your community will not be attacked.
There is no reason why we should negotiate from the weak side of the table when we have the bigger clubs with which we can control our enemy.
They want to believe in Mohammed. Fine, but in America that doesn't include killing our citizens unless they all believe Mohammed meant for them to commit suicide.
The restraint we have shown to date in not alloting equal retribution to Muslims is remarkable but it should end if we have another terrorist attack here in America.
Not knowing for sure what the cause will be in advance, I doubt that any such random retribution will protect us from the true source of the attacks, which is illegal immigration/infiltration. It will further divide us and terrify a segment of the population, however. Not even the Israelis are so cold blooded as to attack Israeli Arabs after terrorist attacks.
But I do think our situation underscores how dangerous our immigration policies have been. That's what I want to focus on now. Prevention is still possible, and we'd better start talking more seriously about building a wall, deporting illegals, and rounding up anyone our LEOs can prove are preparing for attacks before all of this breaks loose. I also think we need to keep engaging the local "faithful" in a dialog to get them involved with security preparations.
Our pols should pay attention to your sentiments, though. If someone with fewer scruples than you have cuts loose, the injustice will be on their shoulders for setting us up like this, as well.
I'm sorry if any of this puts a damper in your plans. We've just got to be responsible about what we figure on doing in advance. Otherwise we'll be guilty of lowering ourselves to the same level as the terrorists.
These are wonderful ideas and should be passed along to Homeland Security. We should all be willing to pass them along to our school administrators as well. I'm going to the Superintendent tomorrow with these recommendations.
Suggestion: get a feel for the politics of the situation. You may be able to accomplish as much or more by talking with a janitor here, a bus driver there, a favorite teacher, and a half dozen other parents than going through the bureacracy. There is a certain kind of resistance to these ideas. I encourage you to do something, though. Anything. Even if it's to walk swing shift with the night watchman 2-3 times a year, just to tell him personally what you think he should be looking for on his rounds.
I like your ideas. I'm creating a file (beginning today) of offensive measures we can take in my community. We may as well create a playbook of our own.
We don't have night watchmen. I am in a tiny village of 1600 people. No minorities here at all although there is a little Muslim community center 15 miles from here which no one pays attention to. Hmmmm. Any thought on this?
It represents the sort of a deterrence that says, "If you wish to live in America, it is your duty to help protect the people from outside attackers, including natives from your homeland. You will put America before all other countries or you will be harshly punished."
"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
Terrorists will and do seek support from the Islamic community in America. When the punishment that the Islamic community in America will receive for not protecting American soil and peoples is so great that they will all be banished you can bet that they will keep a sharp ear open for any terrorist activity initiating from their homeland.
You can bet they would become very well acquainted with our FBI if there was even a whisper of attack. They would become full and honest translators for our INTEL services because of the threat of banishment.
My principles are not divided or an experiment. Foreigners wishing to live here should either assimilate as fast as possible into the American culture completely or leave. That is my belief. (1)
You want to bring "An admission that Islamic immigration should be curtailed to about zero."
Why then do the Islamics already on American soil escape your belief? If "Islamic immigration should be curtailed to about zero", aren't you admitting that there is a hazard from them?
I believe that there is a possible and probable hazard from them that is why I would hold such harsh punishments above their heads.
(1) What city is it in Michigan where they have taken over the community speaker system to have their prayer times announced 5 times a day?
That wouldn't happen if I was the Governor!
You're not going to like what I have to say. Learn what you can about the center. If they do anything to indicate (to you) that they support any anti-Israel or anti-American causes, ask the FBI what to do in order to feel more secure. That will raise the FBI's awareness of your concerns, and will give you access to experts.
If they appear to be benign, then perhaps you can form a neighborhood watch for people in the area to just keep an eye on them. I truly believe that most of these people who have come here to be peaceful. They're even more afraid than we are. In the long run, while stripping back our immigration, we should be doing everything we can to extend exemplary hospitality to these newcomers who are already here. That is the best way to see them assimilate. Once they feel America is part of their family's history, they will want to defend it, too. Friends make much better neighbors...
If you're really bold, you could start a dialog with the center. Ask them what they're doing to ensure that their members are free from Islamist causes. Also, if they're willing to help you, then ask them what they need from your community to feel more comfortable? Is there anything they could do for you to make you feel more comfortable?
In the long run, our best defense is our principles. I'm serious about that.
Something to ponder
I do have difficulty killing "possible" innocent Muslims. If I didn't, I would promote destroying the mosques when they are full of Muslim believers.
Their clerics are the leaders of these people and I want to make sure that they are lead towards the American flag and for what she stands for and our beliefs not to bring terrorist attacks into America.
We don't support taking children and women hostages under any circumstances and I do not want someone who does as a neighbor.
My scruples and I get along just fine.
repeat
You want to bring "An admission that Islamic immigration should be curtailed to about zero."
Why then do the Islamics already on American soil escape your belief? If "Islamic immigration should be curtailed to about zero", aren't you admitting that there is a hazard from them?
Got it... I think we need to strive even harder for political solutions to these problems. That's why I campaign so hard here for immigration reform. We just can't assimilate all of these different cultures here while our own people are aborting whole generations of traditional Americans. Once we've done the deed and brought them here, it's our job to make sure they're protected. This problem starts and ends at our borders, and our leaders who forget that are the ones who should taste our wrath.
Yes, the two positions are not incompatible. We brought them here. We are to blame ourselves, since this is a democratic republic. Blame our leaders, if you need to blame anyone!
The immigrants are just doing what nature tells them to do: going for the safest, most economically rewarding place on the planet they can find. They don't usually care about much else.
I don't know what the extremists want but they've got the so-called moderates convinced that all this is necessary, that peace will happen only after we all submit and live under Sharia law.
I will take the blame for their banishment if they refuse to put America first and foremost.
You will be able to blame me and only me should this ever occur.
I will have no problem sleeping because I sincerely believe that this is what we need to hold over their heads for not putting America first and foremost.
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