Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Exposed: Scandal of double voters (68% are Democrats)
nydailynews.com ^ | August 21, 2004 | RUSS BUETTNER

Posted on 08/22/2004 10:08:07 AM PDT by Andy from Beaverton

Exposed: Scandal
of double voters

With debate over the 2000 election still raging, thousands of people illegally register in both New York City and Florida, which could swing an election.

With debate over the 2000 election still raging, thousands of people illegally register in both New York City and Florida, which could swing an election.
Some 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both the city and Florida, a shocking finding that exposes both states to potential abuses that could alter the outcome of elections, a Daily News investigation shows.

Registering in two places is illegal in both states, but the massive snowbird scandal goes undetected because election officials don't check rolls across state lines.

The finding is even more stunning given the pivotal role Florida played in the 2000 presidential election, when a margin there of 537 votes tipped a victory to George W. Bush.

Computer records analyzed by The News don't allow for an exact count of how many people vote in both places, because millions of names are regularly purged between elections.

But The News found that between 400 and 1,000 registered voters have voted twice in at least one election, a federal offense punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.

One was Norman Siegel, 84, who is registered as a Republican in both Pinellas Park, Fla., and Briarwood, Queens. Siegel has voted twice in seven elections, including the last four presidential races, records show.

Officials in both states acknowledge that voting in multiple states is something of a perfect crime, one officials don't have the means to catch.

"I can't imagine how the supervisors would have access to that information," said Jenny Nash, spokeswoman for the Florida secretary of state. "As far as I know, cross-state registry has not been discussed."

The News' investigation also found:

  • Of the 46,000 registered in both states, 68% are Democrats, 12% are Republicans and 16% didn't claim a party.

  • Nearly 1,700 of those registered in both states requested that absentee ballots be mailed to their home in the other state, where they are also registered. But that doesn't raise red flags with officials in either place.

    Efforts to prevent people from registering and voting in more than one state rely mostly on the honor system.

    New registrants are required to supply a prior address, which kicks in a notification process to election officials in the other jurisdiction. Officials also cross-check change-of-address records from the U.S. Postal Service.

    Both procedures largely count on the honesty of the person registering. And neither would catch people who have homes in both places - including the thousands of snowbirds, the term for Northerners who winter in southern climes.

    "There's no extensive investigation normally on a voter registration form," said Steven Richman, general counsel for the city Board of Elections. "We accept it at its face value."

    Eliminating the potential to vote in multiple states would require creating a national voter registration system with federally assigned voter ID numbers, said Allan Lichtman, a history professor at American University in Washington and a voting rights expert.

    "I don't think the country is ready for that," Lichtman said. "It may well be that a few hundred people spilling over and voting twice may be an inevitable friction within the system."

    Florida election officials were widely criticized after the 2000 election for instituting policies that resulted in thousands of African-Americans, who tend to vote Democratic, being turned away at the polls.

    Republican officials are battling similar charges in this year's election.

    Glenda Hood, the Florida secretary of state appointed by Gov. Jeb Bush in 2002, created a list of felons to be purged from the voter rolls. But the methodology used to create the list guaranteed few Hispanics, who typically vote Republican in Florida, would be purged, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune reported.

    In another problem, The ­Miami Herald reported that more than 2,000 convicted felons on the list had regained their voting rights after receiving clemency. Hood has opened an internal investigation.

    An advocacy group, People for the American Way, has asked U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft to open a federal probe.

    But for all the fire Florida takes, there's no hint that New York's election officials are performing any better.

    At the city and state level, the election boards are deeply politicized patronage mills that rely on aging technology.

    The Help America Vote Act of 2002, passed in response to the 2000 election debacle, requires all states to create statewide voter registration databases by Jan. 1, 2006.

    Florida already has created the statewide registry, though it doesn't yet fully comply with the new law.

    Like most things in Albany, a bill needed to implement the federal law is stalled in the Legislature, so even the federal money already received can't be spent.

    There are no plans to match the registries across states.

    The News contacted more than a dozen people registered in both places, some of whom have voted twice in the same election. Most described themselves as native New Yorkers who briefly flirted with Florida.

    Barbara Donovan, 59, was a transplanted New Yorker living in Florida when she visited her daughter in the city on Sept. 11, 2001. Overcome by solidarity with her hometown, she decided to move back. She registered to vote from her daughter's apartment. But her mother became ill and she returned to Florida.

    Her registrations in both ­places remain active, but Donovan has never voted twice. "I guess if you were some kind of zealot, you could vote in both places," Donovan said. "And last time the election was so close, it really makes you wonder."

    Parties can count on 'em–twice

    Norman Seigel puts a new twist on the political adage "vote early, and often."

    In Siegel's case, you could add "over and over again."

    Siegel (no relation to the civil rights lawyer of the same name) has voted twice in seven elections since 1988, including four presidential races, ­records show.

    Registered as a Republican at his home in Briarwood, Queens, and in Pinellas Park, Fla., Siegel has usually filed an absentee ballot in one or both places.

    Reached at his Florida home, Siegel interrupted a News reporter who was telling him that thousands of people are registered to vote in both states.

    "That's illegal," Siegel interjected. "You have to pick one place as your residence and vote there."

    Told that the records show he maintains registrations in both places, Siegel said he had not voted in Florida, then said he had not voted in New York.

    When he was told that records show he has voted in both places, Siegel cut off the conversation. "I have to go," he said.

    Irving and Magdolna Hertz of Borough Park, Brooklyn, also made a habit of being counted - twice. Magdolna, 85, voted in both New York and Florida during the November general elections in 1996, 1997 and 1998. Irving, 91, did the same in 1996 and 1998. Each time, they both mailed absentee ballots to ­Miami and voted at the polls in Brooklyn.

    Reached on the phone in Brooklyn, Irving Hertz interupted a reporter before a question could be asked.

    "I'm not here today," Hertz said and hung up. He did not return later calls.

    Several New Yorkers who have voted twice in elections said it happened by accident.

    Joseph Moschella, 59, a retired Transit Authority supervisor, said his dual vote in the 2000 presidential election was a mistake caused by his annual snowbird migration.

    The registered Republican in Melbourne Beach, Fla., and on Staten Island said he thought his absentee ballot to Florida hit the mail too late, so he voted in New York as well.

    "What happened was, I mailed it, but wanted to make sure I got my vote," Moschella said. "I'm pretty sure if you don't mail it by a certain date it's void."

    Edwin Peterson, 66, a registered Democrat in Palm Coast, Fla., and St. Albans, Queens, attributed his dual vote in the 2000 election to his distrust of the party running the Sunshine State.

    "That was a situation where Florida is so messed up with the Republicans, you don't know if your vote is even going to be counted," Peterson said. "It's been like that forever."

    Russ Buettner



TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; US: Florida; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 2000election; 2004electionfraud; allanlichtman; corruptdems; democratscheat; dirtytricks; fraud; howtostealanelection; rattricks; scampaign; votefraud; voterfraud
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-98 next last

1 posted on 08/22/2004 10:08:08 AM PDT by Andy from Beaverton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton

No wonder Al Gore won the popular vote.


2 posted on 08/22/2004 10:14:24 AM PDT by AngieGOP (I never met a woman who became a stripper because she played with Barbie dolls as a kid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton

Any chance this article will spur Florida to check their lists? I doubt it, but it would be nice for a change. It was apparently easy enough for the paper to do it.


3 posted on 08/22/2004 10:15:22 AM PDT by July 4th (You need to click "Abstimmen")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton
Hmmmm. 68% Democrat, and that's just in 2 states.
No wonder they don't want voter ID. They'd only be allowed to vote once, and democrats would never win an election.
4 posted on 08/22/2004 10:15:34 AM PDT by concerned about politics ( Liberals are still stuck at the bottom of Maslow's Hierarchy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton

I think with about 12% of the dual registered voters being Republicans, it sure seemed unfair to identify so many of them compared to the Democrats, who committed the majority of the crime.


5 posted on 08/22/2004 10:15:52 AM PDT by coconutt2000
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton

a shocking finding!!!!!!
Not if you grew up in NYC. It's not a big secret.
Without voter fraud the Democrat pary would be as gone as the Whig Party, and the real battle would be between the pubs and the libertarians.


6 posted on 08/22/2004 10:18:36 AM PDT by ProudVet77 (Kerry is Toast du Francai')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton
"I'm not here today," Hertz said and hung up.

Definitely a Florida voter.

7 posted on 08/22/2004 10:18:51 AM PDT by Reeses
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton
Eliminating the potential to vote in multiple states would require creating a national voter registration system with federally assigned voter ID numbers, said Allan Lichtman, a history professor at American University in Washington and a voting rights expert.

Why not?

8 posted on 08/22/2004 10:19:10 AM PDT by Cinnamon Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton
It says that if you register in a new jurisdiction, it notifies your previous one. Shouldn't you automatically be ineligible to vote in the previous jurisdiction?
9 posted on 08/22/2004 10:19:32 AM PDT by OneTimeLurker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton
If the numbers are 68% Democrats to 12%Republicans, why did this article make it seem like Republicans were the bad guys?
10 posted on 08/22/2004 10:20:14 AM PDT by fhayek
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton; lightingguy
Of the 46,000 registered in both states, 68% are Democrats, 12% are Republicans and 16% didn't claim a party.

Anyone notice that while the stat shows an overwhelming majority of Democrats voting double, the article cites specific Republicans about half a dozen times to one Democrat?

LG, check this out.

11 posted on 08/22/2004 10:20:22 AM PDT by agrace
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: July 4th

Each state has to get the others registration role to know who is doing what, right?

What are the chances of getting that done.


12 posted on 08/22/2004 10:21:12 AM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton
"I guess if you were some kind of zealot, you could vote in both places," Donovan said.
Wrong! If you were some kind of FELON you could vote in both places.
13 posted on 08/22/2004 10:21:17 AM PDT by Libertina (The Democrat Party: Ah the freedom to lie, fund 527s, and ban books with media approval.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton
This looks like a job for the Federal Elections Commission.
14 posted on 08/22/2004 10:21:45 AM PDT by airborne (Death From Above)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton

Every one of these fraudsters should be prosecuted.


15 posted on 08/22/2004 10:22:08 AM PDT by Lexington Green (Hanoi John - Hanoi John - The Benedict Arnold of Vietnam)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton

"Some 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both the city and Florida"
When you register in a new state, your old states registration is supposed to be discarded. This happened to me in 2000... I sure hope i'm not one of the people theyre talking about.


16 posted on 08/22/2004 10:23:09 AM PDT by Betaille (Harry Potter is a Right-Winger)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Andy from Beaverton
Commies don't know what truth means....and those are the RATS. Hitlery NEVER NEVER won her senate seat.....she lied and cheated. Voter Fraud placed her in the senate.

Wonder how many others!!!!

17 posted on 08/22/2004 10:24:39 AM PDT by shield (The Greatest Scientific Discoveries of the Century Reveal God!!!! by Dr. H. Ross, Astrophysicist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: airborne

if peoples registrations are counted in both states, then that is the election commissions fault(or at least the state election commission). I changed my registration to florida when i moved down there. If the NY board didn't cancel my registration then that's their fault not mine.


18 posted on 08/22/2004 10:25:37 AM PDT by Betaille (Harry Potter is a Right-Winger)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: agrace

Yes. The R story has prominence, but the felonius rats are way down as a statistic with no accompanying story. As an end poke - the final paragraph portrays the rat double-voting felon with sympathy because the R's in Floiduh are "bad and evil and mean" and the "poor man" doesn't know if his precious vote WILL be counted. So he actually NEEDS to vote twice... This makes me crazy!


19 posted on 08/22/2004 10:25:47 AM PDT by Libertina (The Democrat Party: Ah the freedom to lie, fund 527s, and ban books with media approval.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: July 4th

I am sure they are actually, the problem is the the newspapers will try and abuse the sunshine law and say the republicans are witch hunting.


20 posted on 08/22/2004 10:26:18 AM PDT by aft_lizard (I actually voted for John Kerry before I voted against him)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-98 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson