India needs to replace aging combat fleet, says new naval chief

AFP ^ | Wed Aug 11 2004 | AFP

[hedgetrimmer]

India's new naval chief said the force urgently needed to replace its aging combat ships, admitting it was facing a desperate shortage of manpower and equipment.

"My job is to see that the navy stays in fine fettle," Admiral Arun Prakash told a press conference in New Delhi, his first since taking office last month.

"We need to arrest declining force levels, which will keep going down till 2012 as aging ships get decommissioned. We have got 150 ships, we need to sustain that level," he added on Wednesday.

According to the navy, fleet strength will shrink to 127 warships in three years if aging ships are not replaced.

"Very few orders were placed in our shipyards in the period between 1985 and 1995. The good news is that 19 ships are in various stages of construction at our shipyards," said Prakash.

"But we need more modern submarines sweepers and ultra modern offshore patrol vessels. We would like new nuclear submarines, but it depends on the government," he added.

India is mulling plans to buy warships on international markets due to a potential shortfall by domestic manufacturers in the next two years.

India hiked military spending by almost 18 percent in the year to March 2005 to 770 billion rupees (16.73 billion dollars) from 653 billion rupees the year before to fund a massive military acquisition programme.

Military experts hailed the hike but said it was not enough to fund all the long-planned purchases of a Russian aircraft carrier, British jet trainers, French submarines and a 900 million-dollar project to increase the firepower of the infantry.

"We need funding to maintain force levels. Last year, we received a 17 percent share of the defence budget. If we had got a 20 percent (this year) all our operational needs would be taken care of," said Prakash.

"We would like the government to give us more money," he added.

Prakash said that while 12 Dornier aircraft were being inducted for short-range patrolling activities, the Indian navy was "still on the lookout for good, long-range" surveillance aircraft.

The Indian navy is hoping to buy the US Navy's P3 Orion aircraft to improve its capability in anti-ship, anti-submarine, surface surveillance and search and rescue missions. Currently, P3 Orions are in service in 17 countries.

It is also eyeing the US Navy's Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicles which perform rescue operations on disabled submarines.

"It is under negotiation. It is on our list of priorities but nothing has been finalised yet. Once the technical inspections are concluded we will take a decision," said Prakash.

In April, Russia handed over to India the Tabar frigate, the third ship Moscow has built for New Delhi's navy under a one-billion-dollar contract signed in 1997.

In January, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov announced in New Delhi that Moscow -- after about a decade of negotiations -- would sell to India the 44,570-tonne Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier along with 28 MiG-29K maritime fighter jets for some 1.5 billion dollars.

"Refurbishing work is being carried out on Admiral Gorshkov at a furious pace. She will be a brand new ship when she joins us in 2008," said Prakash.

French defence group Thales and naval shipbuilder Direction des Constructions Navales (DCN) have also completed negotiations with New Delhi on the building of six Scorpene submarines in India but are awaiting final approval for the two billion-euro (2.37 billion-dollar) deal.

"The Scorpene deal has been negotiated and scrutinised at various levels by the navy. It is now awaiting final cabinet clearance," said Prakash.

Prakash succeeds Admiral Madhavendra Singh, who retired on July 31.

[hedgetrimmer]

Since we are bolstering India's economy so much by our outsourcing and USAID infrastructure projects, why aren't they buying their ships from us?

[KC_Conspirator]

Because outsourcing works only one way - we send thousands of good American jobs to them and they stab us in the back.

[COEXERJ145]

Since we are bolstering India's economy so much by our outsourcing and USAID infrastructure projects, why aren't they buying their ships from us?

Probably because we won't sell them what they want to buy.

[Fee]

Because a bulk of the profits go back to the US corporations. Remember outsourcing at the macro economical level is good because the bottom line (profits) comes back to the US. At the workers' level it is bad because of unemployment. The IT class in India is miniscue in numbers compared to the 900+ million who still live in poverty.

[Gefreiter]

"...facing a desperate shortage of manpower"

Wha...? That's one commodity India has in spades!

[wbill]

My guess is that they'll outsource their military functions to the US, just like every other $%^%! country.

[Squawk 8888]

I wonder if their Canadian aircraft carrier is still in service. In the 1950s, HMCS Bonaventure got a $20 million refit then was sold for scrap a year later. The Indian Navy picked it up from the scrap dealer for next to nothing.

[aspiring.hillbilly]

And one more thing, who are they defending themselves from, like who would want to conquer that hellhole?

[Cronos]

why aren't they buying their ships from us?

Because we've got an arms embargo against them so our arms suppliers can't sell weapons to them or they will break US laws

[hedgetrimmer]

This would be a good question for sukhoi-30mki.

[Cronos]

I wonder if their Canadian aircraft carrier is still in service. In the 1950s, HMCS Bonaventure got a $20 million refit then was sold for scrap a year later. The Indian Navy picked it up from the scrap dealer for next to nothing.

Quite incorrect -- the Bonaventure was originally the HMW Powerful in the BRitish fleet -- it was of the Majestic class of aircraft carriers and was sold TO Canada in 1952 and renamed HMCS Bonaventure

Her sister ship, the HMS Hercules was sold to India in 1957 and renamed INS Vikrant

[sukhoi-30mki]

Yep-Cronos! was right on the Vikrant-India has not brought non-British carriers till now.The current carrier is the INS Viraat,which used to be the HMS Hermes & served in the Royal navy as the flagship during the Falklands war & was purchased in 1986.Though over 50yrs old,she has been upgraded with Israeli Barak SAMs & will probably recieve the soon to be retired Royal Navy Sea Harrier FA2s(the contract to upgrade that will also go to the Israelis!!!).

[sukhoi-30mki]

Buddy,Being an Indian im not xactly happy calling my home a hellhole,but considering your (appalling)ignorance im not going to say anything.

Kindly,Take an Atlas & spot India's location.It's right in the middle of the world's busiest trade routes-connecting Middle East & Europe with the Far East.By 2020,over 60% of the world's energy resources will pass through those waters.It helps having a sizable navy to flex muscles & given that ul be the 3rd largest energy consumer soon,it is imperative.Then we have 2 very friendly neighbours,one a semi-crack Islamic dictatorship(clue-a frontline US ally) & China which is dying to make sure that the Indian ocean does'nt remain "India's ocean".BTW,if you haven't heard,The Chinese are building a naval port in Pakistan & are supplying them with all sorts of goodies(including ballistic missiles,ships etc).

India has got a pretty good naval pedigree too-it was the 1st Asian nation after WW2 to have & also use an aircraft carrier.It became the 1st nation to use sea launched missiles in a landward attack,when the navy fired its Soviet Styx missiles at Karachi's oil farms in 1971(a full 20yrs b4 the Tomahawk flew over Baghdad & oh im not bluffing,my dad was in the navy back then).

[sukhoi-30mki]

"why aren't they buying their ships from us?"

U do need 2 hands to clap,don't u.Ive never heard bout the USN offering its ships to the IN-so what should they do??Besides i don't think the USN would realise long range cruise missiles,its top of the line electronic warfare systems & total protection against the risk of sanctions-something that the Russians,Israelis ,French & the rest of Europe seem to have no problem in doing.

Im not saying its all America's fault.The Indian armed forces have been bred on mainly Russian (& a bit of British) systems,changing over to a new supplier is not exactly easy(why are the nations of Eastern Europe so keen on retaining their Soviet weapons?)& takes a lot of time.Moreover,even if the Indian armed forces wanted US weapons as they want now,it would be hard to get.There are very powerful Russian,Israeli & French lobbies in the Indian defence ministry & this combined with the eagerness & flexibility of those countries makes a big American armsdeal rather remote.All those nations see India as a goldmine & all three are engaged in some sort of big project

Russia-a joint supersonic cruise missile,5th gen fighter to name a few.
France-126 new Mirage fighters,new submarines,collaboration on India's soon to be built carrier.
Israeli-upgrades on a lot of systems,joint development of missiles,electronic systems & testing facilities-mostly Israeli developed with Indian money.

Honestly,i don't see the US(& India) as being flexible or trusting each other to do all that.

[Antoninus]

Thanks for the summation. India will become a first-rank power in the next 30-50 years. The problem of the massive underclass will be daunting, but economic advance and transformation will lift a lot of boats, I think.

The only thing that could stifle this would be a whole-hearted reversion to socialism. I personally wish the Indians well and look forward to a day when India's relationship with the US is not so adversarial.

[sukhoi-30mki]

India & the US may not have seen I2I on a lot of issues,but I can tell u this confidently,never ever has the Indian people or government ever been anti-American in the sense you see in the Middle East.The same cannot be said of your "ALLIES" like Pakistan,Egypt or the UAE- while the govts may be pro-America,most people there prefer "DEATH TO THE GREAT SATAN".

[CarrotAndStick]

We've got gems of village idiots on this thread. Just when it seemed like the world's running out of idiots, you see a whole new layer beneath the old. Hellhole my a$$! Some people waste too much oxygen, hills and goats et al!

[<1/1,000,000th%]

India can't afford a modern navy.

[Antoninus]

The same cannot be said of your "ALLIES" like Pakistan,Egypt or the UAE

I know what you're saying is true. Don't forget that the nations you list above are, politically speaking, allies of convenience--meaning that we'd rather have them nominally on our side than openly working against us.

[sukhoi-30mki]

Hmmmm-care to define modern please??IF you can afford to be the largest arms importer after China for 4years & if u can buy weapons (& lots of them ) from the Russians,Israelis,French,South Africans & Brits simultaneously,i wonder whether affordability comes in???