CONCEAL-CARRY LAW: Permit info reveals culture, not policy

St. Paul Pioneer Press ^ | Jun. 02, 2004 | St. Paul Pioneer Press

[jdege]

CONCEAL-CARRY LAW: Permit info reveals culture, not policy

If the patterns in permits to pack that emerged after the first year of Minnesota's concealed carry law continue, it will be fair to say this handgun law is a battle in the culture wars more than it is a public safety remedy.

We continue to believe that Minnesota would be a better place without this law that passed amid sound and fury in the 2003 Legislature. But the proponents were effective in building the political muscle required to prevail, arguing that a uniform statewide standard was necessary to grant competent citizens with clean records their right to bear arms.

An analysis of the Department of Public Safety's data on permits done by Pioneer Press reporter Janet Roberts finds at least three patterns that illuminate the cultural dynamics of concealed carry. The analysis finds that 10 times as many men sought and got these permits as did women. The highest concentration of the male permit holders is middle-aged. Geographic distribution tips overwhelmingly to rural areas, such as northeast Minnesota, where, statistically, an errant moose probably is a greater threat to a person's safety than a rampaging gang of home invaders.

We remain hopeful that future legislatures will revisit permission to pack, beginning with the small practical step of making it a public record who has applied for and received a permit. But, for now, the data on who and where Minnesotans are taking out permits indicates no upheavals. No trends in crime control are apparent. Fewer than half the 50,000 new permits lawmakers anticipated have been sought and granted.

The practical effect so far of 22,100 more people among us with authority to carry a concealed weapon has been neither doomsday nor measurable deterrent. The absence of extremes bodes well for the chance to use brains, not the guts, for a collective thinking through of concealed carry in Minnesota.

[jdege]

If they'd wanted a more restrictive carry bill, they should have supported the version that was before the legislature last session, or the session before.

But they wouldn't compromise in the slightest degree, and so we couldn't pass a bill until we had elected a legislature that was over-whelmingly in favor of shall-issue, and now they have a law that they consider too extreme.

Waaah!

[jdege]

To find all articles bumped to bang_list, click below:
click here >>>	bang_list	<<< click here
(To view all FR Bump Lists, click here)

Bookmark the bang_list. This is not a "ping" list (no one maintains a list of interested FReepers). It is a do-it-yourself, see-what's-been-bumped-to-the list. Anyone can bump an article to the list by sending it To: *bang_list Then, interested FReepers can (bookmark and) check the list periodically to see new articles. Please do not ask me to "add you to the list." It doesn't work like that. This is better than a ping list because (1) anyone can bump an article to the list, and any interested parties can see the list of articles 24x7.

[IGOTMINE]

Change, "We remain hopeful that future legislatures will revisit permission to pack, beginning with the small practical step of making it a public record who has applied for and received a permit." to:

"We remain hopeful that future legislatures will revist the PERMISSION TO PRINT NEWSPAPERS, beginning with the SMALL PRACTICAL STEP OF MAKING IT A PUBLIC RECORD THE NAMES AND ADDRESSES OF EDITORS AND REPORTERS."

[E. Pluribus Unum]

We remain hopeful that future legislatures will revisit permission to pack, beginning with the small practical step of making it a public record who has applied for and received a permit.

Evidently the editors of the St. Paul Pioneer Press consider CCW owners to be of the same class as sexual predators.

[GrandEagle]

to grant competent citizens with clean records their right to bear arms.
Here is the heart of the issue. Our nation was founded on the belief that our Creator endowed us as individuals with all rights. We as individuals agreed to form a union. In order to form that union WE granted our Government certain rights.

Interesting revelation.

[jdege]

We delegated the government certain powers.

We gave it no rights.

[cryptical]

The absence of extremes bodes well for the chance to use brains, not the guts, for a collective thinking through of concealed carry in Minnesota.

I agree with this. The absence of problems indicates to me that the law as written may be more stringent than required for public safety.

Vermont seems to do well with even less regulation. Perhaps we should explore their model.

[GrandEagle]

We gave it no rights.
I stand corrected... but I think the point still stands.

[TalonDJ]

Evidently the editors of the St. Paul Pioneer Press consider CCW owners to be of the same class as sexual predators.

I notice that the window I go to in my local Iowa sherif's office to apply for a carry permit or a pistol purchase permit is also the department that registers sex offenders.

[elbucko]

In order to form that union WE granted our Government certain "Rights".

Government does NOT have rights. Government has "Powers" that the people have granted it by their consent. Only persons have "Rights". That concept is important. Government needs to be reminded of its "place" (and the press of its "responsibilities" under the First Amendment).

[GrandEagle]

Government does NOT have rights.
OK, OK! Your are CORRECT! I thought I had corrected myself after this very point was brought out by another poster.
I'll be more careful with my wording in the future! LOL!!

[elbucko]

This editorial is nothing more than a Left Wing, "G*d D*mn Angry White Man", hit piece.

Who got what and why, is of no consequence as long as nothing untoward has occurred. Most private aircraft are also owned by white men. The fact means nothing, other than white men like airplanes. Other groups have members that have incomes and opportunities that enable them to own aircraft too.

[elbucko]

Thanks.

[AdamSelene235]

well for the chance to use brains, not the guts, for a collective thinking

Collectives do not think anymore than pink elephants think.

They are an abstraction.

[pabianice]

"Even though concealed carry has produced none of the problems we warned about, we hope that in the future the law will be repealed to prevent the problems we warned about."

How f*****g STUPID are these Liberals??

[jdege]

I'd like to correct those of you who keep calling these people "liberals".

This is from the St. Paul Pioneer Press, which is the Twin Cities' conservative newspaper.

The editorial page of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune is nothing like so moderate or rational.

[William Tell]

From the article: "Geographic distribution tips overwhelmingly to rural areas, such as northeast Minnesota, where, statistically, an errant moose probably is a greater threat to a person's safety than a rampaging gang of home invaders."

Let just one rapist threaten the peace of an urban area and this will change dramatically and, because of the new law, quickly. This law is good news for those of us who are "pro-choice".

[George Smiley]

I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters.

Frank Lloyd Wright

[Hat-Trick]

I'd like to correct those of you who keep calling these people "liberals".

From what I can discern after my many trips to the Twin Cities, I will classify the editors of both rags as socialists-in-denial (in denial that they are actually socialists). Neither the St. Paul Socialist Press, nor the Minneapolis Red-Star Tribune are fit for bird cage duty. Hennepin and Washington Counties are particularly bad, with the Washington County Sheriff still issuing CCW permits "in protest".

Many good God-fearing, hockey and gun-loving conservatives to be found in the "Northland", whose voice is unfortunately drowned out by the incessant boo-hooing of the socialists.

[TC Rider]

The practical effect so far of 22,100 more people among us with authority to carry a concealed weapon has been neither doomsday nor measurable deterrent.

Yeah, figure another 50,000-100,000 permit holders before the road rage, Wild West, shoot-outs start..