Warner: Photos Were to Intimidate Inmates

WASHINGTON (AP) - U.S. military personnel took photos of Iraqi prisoners in sexually humiliating poses in an apparent effort to obtain leverage for future interrogations, a leading senator said Tuesday.

``They staged those photographs, which I understand were going to be shown to the prisoners' families by way of threats unless he came forward with some valuable information,'' said Sen. John Warner, R-Va., the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

``The plot is thickening,'' Warner added as he presided over a daylong hearing into prisoner abuse. The hearing was jolted by the release of a video, posted on an Islamic militant Web site, that showed the apparent beheading of an American civilian in Iraq.

``So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls,'' said one of the executioners.

Testifying before the panel, the Army general who first investigated abuse in an Iraqi prison said the mistreatment resulted from faulty leadership, a ``lack of discipline, no training whatsoever and no supervision'' of the troops.

Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba also left open the possibility that members of the Central Intelligence Agency as well as armed forces personnel and civilian contractors were culpable in the abusive treatment of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison.

``A few soldiers and civilians conspired to abuse and conduct egregious acts of violence against detainees and other civilians outside the bounds of international laws and the Geneva Convention,'' he said.

From the time that photos of abuse surfaced, administration officials have expressed concern about possible harm to Americans in Iraq and other nearby countries.

``Senators ... are in a virtual state of shock about the beheading,'' Warner said after returning to the committee hearing from the Senate floor.

In response to a question, Gen. Ronald L. Burgess told Warner ``there has been an increase'' in threats in the days since the prisoner abuse became known.

Throughout the day, senators pressed Taguba and other witnesses to learn whether senior officers or military intelligence personnel at the Abu Ghraib prison had known of, authorized, suggested, or otherwise been involved in the abusive treatment of prisoners by military police.

``I cannot help but suspect that others were involved,'' said Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine. ``That military intelligence were involved or people further up the chain of command in suggesting to these guards specific types of abuse that were designed to break these prisoners.''

Lt. Gen. Keith B. Alexander, the top intelligence officer in the Army, said her logic was sound, but he added, ``The difficult part is to find out who told whom what to do.''

A few moments later, Warner interrupted to say that he agreed with Collins, particularly that the poses seemed designed offend Muslims.

``These youngsters didn't understand the nuances of Muslim culture. ... They staged those photographs, which I understand were going to be shown to the prisoners' families by way of threats unless he came forward with some valuable information,'' Warner said.

Earlier, Taguba testified that the photographs were taken by the personal digital cameras of U.S. personnel.

Stephen Cambone, undersecretary of defense for intelligence, told the panel that personal ``photographing, filming and videotaping'' of prisoners of war was strictly prohibited.

Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb., challenged Taguba on his statement that Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski of the 800th Military Police Brigade bore responsibility for a breakdown in discipline that led to abuse.

Taguba testified that tactical control of the Abu Ghraib facility had been taken away from Karpinski and turned over to a military intelligence colonel. Karpinski retained control over other Iraqi prisons in her command, and Taguba conceded that they remained largely free of abuse.

Karpinski, a general in the Reserve, has been suspended and issued an official letter of admonishment in connection with the abuse. She has not been charged.

Questions about ultimate responsibility for control of the prison also produced a disagreement between Taguba and Cambone.

Taguba said that control had been turned over to military intelligence officials.

In a further disagreement, Taguba said it was against Army rules for intelligence troops to involve MPs in setting conditions for interrogations. Cambone said he believed it was appropriate for the two groups to collaborate.

Taguba also told the committee his investigation had not found ``any order whatsoever, written or otherwise,'' that directed the military police to cooperate with intelligence forces at the prison.

Left unresolved was the central question of what Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller meant in recommending, shortly before the abuses occurred, that military police become involved in ``setting conditions'' for the successful interrogation of prisoners.

Cambone insisted it meant only that MPs tell the interrogators what the prisoners had been saying in confinement and otherwise ``collaborating'' with the interrogators. Taguba said he believed it meant applying more coercive techniques to prisoners prior to their interrogations.

Regardless of any disagreements, Cambone and others told the panel that troops in Iraq were under orders to abide by the Geneva Conventions, which dictate terms for humane treatment of prisoners.

``An order to soften up a detainee would not be a legal order, would it?'' asked Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kansas.

``No sir,'' replied Lt. Gen. Lance F. Smith, the deputy director of the U.S. Central Command.

Taguba told the panel that his investigators had been told about participation by ``other government agencies or contractors'' in the abuse.

Cambone, too, was asked whether he had any knowledge of CIA involvement in the abuse at Abu Ghraib.

``There were people brought by agency personnel to that place. ... There may have been interrogations conducted by the agency personnel while they were there,'' he said.

The hearing took place while Senate leaders sought access to photos and videos of abuse not yet made public. Officials said the plan was for all senators to have access to the material.

In Geneva, the International Committee of the Red Cross said U.S.-led coalition intelligence officers had told it that up to 90 percent of Iraqi detainees were arrested by mistake.

A 24-page Red Cross report also cited abuses, some ``tantamount to torture,'' including brutality, forcing people to wear hoods, humiliation and threats of imminent execution.

It's way past time to dump the Senate branch of our Government - they are useless piles of dung weighing down our society with their communistic agendas and self-serving egos!

His comments contradict all of today's testimony. Our Congress is a ship of fools. Time for these "icon" Byrd, Warner, Specter, Kennedy, Harkin to retire and get some working brains in there.

F the Red Cross! Where was their outrage for Saddam & his real torture chambers & rape rooms? I don't remember hearing them make any statements about that stuff.

Uh... how is it useful to "embarrass them" if they all have their heads covered with hoods?

Seems Warner hasn't been paying attention.

Uh... how is it useful to "embarrass them" if they all have their heads covered with hoods?

The guys with their faces in other guys' crotches were not wearing sandbags.

And why would the MIs not keep control over the pictures if they'd directed them. MI is notoriously and naturally interested in keeping control of information. Was there any set of files for them, either with MI, or with the MPs?

8 posted on 05/11/2004 3:26:29 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)

Taguba testified that tactical control of the Abu Ghraib facility had been taken away from Karpinski and turned over to a military intelligence colonel. Karpinski retained control over other Iraqi prisons in her command, and Taguba conceded that they remained largely free of abuse.

That suggests to me that the truly responsible party is somewhere below Karpinski's level. Were it her level, it would have been at other prisons under her command. Were it higher up, it would have been at those and even more.

I clearly heard Taguba say today that this photos were taked with personal cameras by the implicated individuals. Where did he come up with this!

I wanna find a transcript of today's hearing. I watched most of it and what the AP reports here is NOT what I heard.

I watched most of it and what the AP reports here is NOT what I heard.

Spin, spin, spin.

U.S. military personnel took photos of Iraqi prisoners in sexually humiliating poses in an apparent effort to obtain leverage for future interrogations, a leading senator said Tuesday.

WHY couldn't they have just showed 'em the piles of corpses left over from the firefights? If _I_ was a prisoner, that would'a 'leveraged' the hell outta ME: embarrassment is no where nearly as effective as a life-threat.

13 posted on 05/11/2004 3:44:45 PM PDT by solitas (sometimes I lay awake at night looking up at the stars wondering where the heck did the ceiling go?)

Uh... how is it useful to "embarrass them" if they all have their heads covered with hoods?

They were going to be shown to other prisoners to soften them up for interrogation. 'Talk to us or this is what's in store for you'.

What you're saying is illogical. That group of 6 or 7 soldiers were at THAT prison, not at another prison. The case of England and her "lets do it together" boyfriend, (I think Graner) is a good example of people not acting alone but as a small group of folks "doing something stupid and not in anyones best interest". (It was wrong and self-serving).

The Red Cross goes in and talks to prisoners confidentially. Then, they rely on the word of these (mostly scumbags) who told them the USA made a mistake, yada yada, yada, but forgot to tell them things about themselves which might alter the resulting report.

In other words, they F**** LIE LIKE HELL.

" ``Senators ... are in a virtual state of shock about the beheading,'' Warner said after returning to the committee hearing from the Senate floor."

WHY?

Dont they know the terrorists are capable of things like this?

Uh, you are saying pretty much what I was saying but in a different way.

The left has been trying to say this was systematic and was policy.

If it was, it would have been elsewhere. And if it was condoned high up, it would have been elsewhere under whatever point the condoning existed.

"" ``Senators ... are in a virtual state of shock about the beheading,..."

Why indeed.
As if they didn't know that publicizing this would result in all that it has... up to and including the savage and cruel beheading of our men like Berg.

Yes, we needed to get to the bottom of the nonsense going on at Abu Ghraib and stop it. But doing so did not require airing the dirty laundry to the world.

So I'd go so far as to say that those who chose to expose it have more blood on their hands than anyone who might have ordered some "humiliation" of prisoners under interrogation.

19 posted on 05/11/2004 4:27:20 PM PDT by Trinity_Tx (Most of our so-called reasoning consists in finding arguments for going on believin as we already do)

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