Meehan crashes news conference on Humvee funding

Lowell Sun ^ | Thursday, April 29, 2004 | IAN BISHOP

[Cannoneer No. 4]

WASHINGTON A show-and-tell press event using an armored Humvee as the prop devolved into what amounted to a partisan street fight on Capitol Hill yesterday morning.

With smiles on their faces and backslaps still fresh, Rep. Marty Meehan, a Massachusetts Democrat, and Rep. J.D. Hayworth, a Republican from Arizona, excoriated each other over whose party is doing more to protect troops fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Clearly, funding for armoring Humvees has not been adequate," said Meehan, who infiltrated Hayworth's staged event without invitation and circulated a press release saying it was "outrageous" that the vehicle was in Washington rather than Iraq.

Meehan's presence and comments prompted Hayworth to steal back the spotlight in front of the assembled media.

"I think we all want to support our troops in the field," he said. "Just for the purposes of full disclosure, I think Marty wouldn't mind if I pointed out that when it came to $87 billion to protect our soldiers, Marty voted no," Hayworth said. "And the man he supports for president, Sen. John Kerry, in the final analysis voted no. It's something to keep in mind."

"I'm glad you brought that up," Meehan retorted. "Because when I see this administration trying to make it seem like the $87 billion was their way or no other way that package was loaded with no-bid contracts to Halliburton. It didn't provide the funding needed to up-armor Humvees."

The political spat underscored the dangerous conditions facing U.S. troops. Only 60 percent of the 12,800 Humvees the Defense Department estimates is required to support the ongoing endeavor in Iraq are equipped with reinforced windows and doors.

An Associated Press story earlier this week said the Army is making a "full-court press" to locate and deliver every armored Humvee in its inventory to Iraq.

Seven of the 23 Massachusetts troops killed in Iraq as of this month died while riding in unarmored vehicles, including Army Pfc. John Hart of Bedford and Marine Cpl. David Vicente of Methuen.

Hart died of injuries he suffered when his unarmored Humvee was ambushed near Kirkuk, Iraq, in October.

The vitriol between Meehan and Hayworth didn't quell when the cameras stopped rolling.

"If (the concern) is so great, vote with us to arm the troops in the field," Hayworth said. "Or is he like Sen. Kerry, did he vote for (the $87 billion supplemental budget to fund the fight in Iraq) until he voted against it?

"We're always pleased to see our friends, and we welcome free and open discussion, but let's tell the entire story," Hayworth added. "Not some of the woulda, coulda, shoulda. But what do we do to help people in the field right now? And the inescapable fact, no matter how you want to bash anybody else, is, sadly, Marty and Sen. Kerry voted against the very appropriation that would provide this kind of armor."

Meehan responded by pointing out that the bill passed by 78 votes in the House last fall yet 40 percent of Humvees in Iraq still lack armor.

"The president threatened to veto (the $87 billion) if it contained loans for the reconstruction rather than grants," Meehan said. "Does that mean if he vetoed it, he would've been against the troops?

"It's such a joke," Meehan added. "They think they can put a bunch of corrupt crap in (a bill) and everyone will vote for it like sheep."

From the outset yesterday, Hayworth sensed a fight was at hand when Meehan arrived uninvited at the event with a podium in tow.

"Are you guys here to mix it up politically?" Hayworth asked.

"We're on the same page," Meehan assured him.

Meehan said his actions yesterday were motivated by a commitment he made to the Hart and Vicente families.

"I made a promise to those families that I would not stop fighting to make sure our troops get the equipment they need," Meehan said.

Meehan has filed a nonbinding resolution urging the Pentagon to release all funds approved by Congress to armor Humvees as quickly as possible.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Real soldiers don't read OPLANS

They execute FRAGOS

From FM RU-12.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Bradleys have become the vehicle of choice for patrolling post-war Iraq because they offer greater protection from ongoing attacks than do less well-protected Humvees. But as their tracks deteriorate, more and more Bradleys are being sidelined.

[archy]

Everything I'm reading says the uparmored Hummers don't cut it either.
Note: The Humvee was a replacement for the Jeep, not the Abrams.

The Israelis have a very nice little Diesel-powered armoured Jeep, the M240 sufa [Storm] that's small arms fire resistant and has proven very useful in a number of military and police functions, during the 1982 *Operation Peace for Galilee* efforts and more recently in actions against armed former Jordanian and Egyptian refugees in Israeli territory.

I'm of the opinion that if we return to a light ¼ to ½-ton vehicle, it probably ought to be amphibious, since almost none of our standard vehicles now in service, save the M113A3, are. But in that part of the world where that's much less a consideration, the little Israeli jeep serves well.

On the other hand, the last batch bought for the Israeli police, presumably the armoured cabin version, reportedly cost around $121,428 each, which seems a bit pricy, considering it doesn't swim.

[R. Scott]

Yep.

[R. Scott]

…the M240 sufa [Storm] that's small arms fire resistant …

Small arms resistant would not be enough. It would have to take a direct hit with an anti-armor weapon and the largest mines that can be made. Anything less - as can be seen on this board - would be “failure to protect the troops”.

[Southack]

"The difference now is how the deaths are handled in the media. Period."

Indeed. The U.S. loses over 3,000 Americans per *month* KIA...on our national highways (but you don't see news commentators reading their names off of a somber list each night).

And if a terrorist rams an oncoming car to kill a mother and her 4 kids, it's not even covered on the local news...but if that same terrorist kills a mom and her 4 kids with a bomb at a shopping mall or a sporting event, it would make *national* news for months.

More Americans die from accidents in our mines, factories, and hospitals each month than in Iraq and Afghanistan combat combined...yet the news media cares not for the deaths of those Americans in domestic accidents as it serves no political objective of theirs.

[Ranger]

"It didn't provide the funding needed to up-armor Humvees"

Its sad but true. No help from Meehan by the way. The up armored humvee funding and the body armor funding came about from intense congressional pressure beginning in about October-November. The up armored program still is not funded to meet current army needed levels though there has been substantial improvement in the last month or so. The body armor issue was resolved more quickly with 6 vendors activated and it is largely behind us. Still up armor humvee and retro kit funding is about $700 MM short to meet immediate in-theater needs and Meehan/Simmons on the House side and several bi-partisan senators on the senate side will probably move to resolve this matter this summer after 6 months of work on our part. Republic Rep. Hunter did a good job of coalescing the bi-partisan matters on this top last week in the house armed services committee hearings. Transcrips are amazing on this and will go a long way to answering your question. If you want them I can send them to you.

[Ranger]

Meehan is in an adjacent district from Foster Miller. The marines did a great job of rushing 1000 4 door armor kits into theater from Foster Miller in about 90 days, start to finish. It puts the army program to shame. The sad fact is though that Foster Miller has completed the order and will turn off the plant for ground vehicular armor at the end of this month. It will go back to making aircraft ceramic armor. The Army never placed an order with Foster-Miller. Thousands of vehicles could receive immediate partial protection for about 10K a piece if the Army would activate the Foster-Miller products that the army designed and tested. Very sad and poorly managed process by the army and excellent action by the marines on this matter.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

ping

[MHGinTN]

Thanks for the ping. I have little regard for Meehan because he is a blind partisan hack in most things. I agree that up-armoring Humvees is a deathtrap scenario and that using heavier armor that has obsolete weaponry, converted to carry troops is a better solution (and the Israelis have proven it since they are outnumbered twenty to one by the bloodlusting Arabs and still send IDF troops into the heart of insanityland and return them alive).

[NYC Republican]

Excellent perspective.

[archy]

Small arms resistant would not be enough. It would have to take a direct hit with an anti-armor weapon and the largest mines that can be made. Anything less - as can be seen on this board - would be “failure to protect the troops”.

*Failure to protect the troops*: Fallujah; April 2004:

[Ranger]

No matter what the Army does, somebody is going to say they are wrong.

This is incorrect. The army bungled the transition to an insurgents was and has been playing catch up to its own mismanagement for the better part of a year. This is a fixable problem, but it needs to be addressed head-on without excuse and resolved. That means more pro-active procurement and in the short-run more money than is being allocated to mililitary logistics and armored support. The long-run cost is probably a wash or less as we will be buying this equipment in any event to replenish diminished stocks. There is a stated 12,000 up armored humvee need in the army right now, so its not like these won't be used if procured this year and used instead of two years from now when they may not be needed.

This is not a damned if you do damned if you don't discussion. Its about getting the job done now and having the courage to address it head-on come what may.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Last night, Celeste Vincente, her husband, Orlando, and a group of family friends clustered around the television to watch Congressman Martin T. Meehan stand on the floor of the U.S. House of Representatives, call their son a hero, and then use his death as an example of how the government has failed to provide U.S. troops with what he called "critical" equipment.

"I've been saying this for months," Meehan, D-Lowell, said after the speech. "It's a disgrace that any soldier serving the United States of America should have to buy his own equipment. And it's inexcusable."

Extra equipment might not have saved Vicente's life, Meehan said. But, he added, the Humvee in which the 25-year-old Marine was patrolling when it hit a land mine was one of 12,500 vehicles in Iraq that are not fully armored -- it had Kevlar on the sides, but not underneath.

Meehan said he has introduced a resolution to require the military to immediately upgrade the armor on all its Humvees.

[archy]

It didn't provide the funding needed to up-armor Humvees"

Its sad but true. No help from Meehan by the way. The up armored humvee funding and the body armor funding came about from intense congressional pressure beginning in about October-November. The up armored program still is not funded to meet current army needed levels though there has been substantial improvement in the last month or so. The body armor issue was resolved more quickly with 6 vendors activated and it is largely behind us. Still up armor humvee and retro kit funding is about $700 MM short to meet immediate in-theater needs and Meehan/Simmons on the House side and several bi-partisan senators on the senate side will probably move to resolve this matter this summer after 6 months of work on our part. Republic Rep. Hunter did a good job of coalescing the bi-partisan matters on this top last week in the house armed services committee hearings. Transcrips are amazing on this and will go a long way to answering your question. If you want them I can send them to you.

So exactly where DID the armored *turtleback* Humvees that came off the production lines go to? Some to Kosovo for IFOR/;KFOR, of course.

Tue Apr 27,10:19 AM ET

Jordanian special forces stand on their Humvees as they prepare for a display during the opening of the arms exhibition of Special Operations Forces Exhibition (SOFEX) in Amman, Jordan, Tuesday April 27, 2004. Around 250 international firms, from 32 countries including the United States, Britain, and France are taking part in the the three-day exposition.

(AP Photo/Hussein Malla)

[Cannoneer No. 4]

The Army does not need 12,000 M1114's.

[Ranger]

According to last weeks testimony at the house armed services committee, the DoD opted not to use its powers to take priority production on armored humvees and it also did not exercise its available power to second source this matter. The issue is one of funding and not capacity. Peak planned but unbudgeted capacity this summer is 300 vehicles per month but plant capacity is 450-500. Meehan and numerous senators and reps of both parties are pushing to get additional funding to move the figure to full plant capacity and to hold it there. The fact is the army's estimates of need are skyrocketing and we might as well plant to produce into that need versus trail it by a year as we are right now.

[Southack]

Why do you want to armor general purpose utility vehicles?

If you want to save lives, insist that patrols be performed in suitably armored vehicles such as Bradley's...but adding weight to rear echelon non-fighting vehicles simply adds costs and increases our support convoy needs (more convoys = more chances to be attacked - offsetting the advantage of having armor in the first place).

He we are at the end of April, the "deadliest" month in Iraq, and we've lost less than 120 Americans there...compared to losing more than 3,000 this month in simple highway road accidents stateside. Do we want to uparmor all American civilian road vehicles to be able to withstand 65 mph crashes?! Can you imagine what that would do to our demands for imported oil??

I'm simply offering some perspective. If you want to save lives by using armor, then patrols should be performed in vehicles *designed* for direct combat patrols (e.g. Bradleys and M1A1 Abrams). Armoring HMMWV's is like trying to armor up racing motorcylces stateside...a conflict in priorities.

Yes, we want to save American lives...so lets concentrate on applying the right tool to high risk patrols rather than encumbering the incorrect tools in some attempt to force-fit them into usage that they were never intended for.

[Ranger]

The lower picture on the left shows a humvee with a Foster-Miller door panel. It essentially the same stuff put on aircraft cockpits. Note it is attached with velcro and straps. When better armor comes along, this panel can be removed and put on trucks or guard towers. It won't go to waste.

[Ranger]

So exactly where DID the armored *turtleback* Humvees that came off the production lines go to? Some to Kosovo for IFOR/;KFOR, of course.

That's a real good question. I'll send you a private reply with partial answer.