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Can Judge Order Changes in Church's Membership? Religious Leaders Plan Appeal
The Sacramento Union ^
| Thursday, March 25, 2004
| MICHAEL JOYCE
Posted on 04/14/2004 3:47:58 PM PDT by Between the Lines
Edited on 04/14/2004 5:07:53 PM PDT by Jim Robinson.
[history]
Can a judge force a church to reinstate parishioners its leaders have expelled?
That question will soon reach the Fifth District Court of Appeal in a case which could have nationwide significance as a legal test of religious freedom.
Fresno's Free Evangelical Lutheran Cross Church is planning to appeal a recent Fresno Superior Court order that required the church to allow a group of expelled members back into its congregation.
(Excerpt) Read more at sacunion.com ...
TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: 1stamendment; churchandstate; judicialacivism; religiousfreedom
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To: Between the Lines
"While the messages this pastor was preaching were straight from Scripture, they did not align with the more liberal thinking of these few church members."
2
posted on
04/14/2004 3:53:43 PM PDT
by
Outraged
To: Between the Lines
This is an Armageddon ruling if allowed to stand. May God destroy Kalifornia, before Kalifornia destroys America.
To: Between the Lines
Given that the real issue in the 'separation' cases is anti-Christian bigotry, and that this case is in California, my money says the church loses. It will open the door to the courts imposing the acceptance of gays on churches or risk their tax exempt status.
4
posted on
04/14/2004 3:54:35 PM PDT
by
Spok
(They call me old Hugh, but I doubt I'm 80.)
To: Between the Lines
For a moment set the religious aspect of this case aside. Do members of a club have contractual rights in a club they pay dues to?
Nothing wrong a court enforcing a contract is there?
5
posted on
04/14/2004 3:58:19 PM PDT
by
Mark was here
(My tag line was about to be censored.)
To: Mrs Mark
"...what's to prevent any church board from kicking out anyone they disagree with?"
Nothing.
6
posted on
04/14/2004 4:00:17 PM PDT
by
glaux
To: Between the Lines
INTREP - JUDICIAL TYRANNY - Big Brother out of control
To: Between the Lines
...then the question becomes-- what's to prevent any church board from kicking out anyone they disagree with?" Nothing! And there is nothing, should be nothing (besides the church members themselves, or however a particular denomination's hierarchy works) to prevent a church board from kicking out anyone they disagree with---least of all a government court! This is a First Amendment Issue. A judge has no right to force any church to accept or retain ANY member.
8
posted on
04/14/2004 4:02:43 PM PDT
by
wimpycat
("The road to the promised land runs past Sinai."-C.S. Lewis)
To: Viking2002
>This is an Armageddon ruling if allowed to stand.
May God destroy Kalifornia, before Kalifornia destroys America.
I've often thought this,
but I'm told some freepers live
in California . . .
To: theFIRMbss
As as I've told our Freepers behind enemy lines - GOT OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN.
To: Spok
In my view.. It is EXACTLY tax exempt status that is forcing money matters over the good and the pure. Church membership is about association and not civil rights.. There is no good in associating with someone who does not share your beliefs. There are enough church possibilities to associate where you are comfortable..
11
posted on
04/14/2004 4:07:27 PM PDT
by
glowworm
( Rats and rat behavior, a rat is a rat is a rat..)
To: Mrs Mark
"Nothing wrong a court enforcing a contract is there?" You nailed it.
The church can't have it both ways.
They want the financial protection of a corporation and bylaws, but when a member of the corporation has to go to court to enforce the bylaws they run from the protection of the corporation.
12
posted on
04/14/2004 4:07:56 PM PDT
by
tahiti
To: glaux
"...what's to prevent any church board from kicking out anyone they disagree with?" Nothing.
Was the board elected according to by-laws?
Does the board follow procedures established in the by-laws in expelling members?
13
posted on
04/14/2004 4:14:40 PM PDT
by
Mark was here
(My tag line was about to be censored.)
To: tahiti
A person who forces their opinion to the detriment of a church.. is pond scum. The person who is a candidate for membership, in a church, swears to obey the ruling of the Council or Leadership concerning the "bylaws"..
There is no right except to leave the church, in peace, and accept the ruling of the governing body.. Taking this to the secular courts is so Anti-Christianity..
14
posted on
04/14/2004 4:18:33 PM PDT
by
glowworm
( Rats and rat behavior, a rat is a rat is a rat..)
To: tahiti
"Nothing wrong a court enforcing a contract is there?"There is no contract between a church and its members, written or implied. Pledges made to churches cannot be enforced through credit reporting or collection agencies. Pastors can be hired or fired at will. Those who disagree with the functioning and policies of the church have to deal with it or go somewhere else, or appeal to the governing body of the church if there is one. Contract law is not applicable here.
The church has the right to have it any way they want it - both ways, one way, all ways.
Let's talk about the real issue here, folks. The courts have decided to try and intervene in the functioning of a church. They need to read the 1st amendment and MEMORIZE IT.
Sheesh.
15
posted on
04/14/2004 4:20:30 PM PDT
by
WarEagle
To: Viking2002
As as I've told our Freepers behind enemy lines - GOT OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN. A brave man stands and fights with God as his Protector.
16
posted on
04/14/2004 4:24:49 PM PDT
by
pbear8
(no complaining...Thanks be to God)
To: xzins
ping
17
posted on
04/14/2004 4:26:57 PM PDT
by
TrueBeliever9
(aut viam inveniam aut faciam (where there is a will - there is a way)
To: Mrs Mark
That's different. Church donations are not dues. There is no contract.
Are churches going to have to make members sign contracts now. Is that what you suggest?
To: Mrs Mark
"That 28-year-old case involved a church board which removed a bishop and was ordered by the Illinois Supreme Court to reinstate him because proper removal procedures were not followed. The U.S. Supreme Court overturned the state court, ruling that civil courts must accept church decisions...
...even if procedural errors are made."
19
posted on
04/14/2004 4:32:36 PM PDT
by
glaux
To: WarEagle
There is no contract between a church and its members, written or implied. That was my first thought. What contract?
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