The Folly of a Free Trade Pact with Central America

AmericanEconomicAlert.org ^ | Wednesday, April 07, 2004 | Alan Tonelson

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well, in that case, all the problems go away if we outsource the Gummint and build a wall at the border, eh?

Yes.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Millions of Mexicans lost their jobs and are now so desperate that a million move to the USA each year, hundreds willing to die to get here ---- post NAFTA of course. Immigration from Mexico before NAFTA was a trickle.

So, Americans lost their jobs because cheaper goods were bought from Mexican companies? And Mexicans (farmers?) lost jobs because cheaper American agricultural products were available?

And the money saved wasn't beneficial to both countries?

Millions of American farmers lost their jobs after mechanical reapers were invented. Do you miss the more expensive food too?

As far as the flood of Mexican immigration, build a wall. Make Mexico take care of their own.

[ninenot]

Google and CIA Factbook. You, too, can learn to use them!

OVERALL econ growth in China 2003 was 9.1%. INDUSTRIAL econ growth, China, 12.1% 2003.

China is now the 2nd-largest economy in the world, based on purchasing parity.

I'd say that it's significant.

[ninenot]

OK, then. You work on outsourcing the Gummint (be sure to have current members TRAIN their replacements) and I'll go to work on the wall.

[Toddsterpatriot]

CIA Factbook

Yeah, didn't the CIA think the USSR was going to surpass the U.S. economy?

So, second largest economy, I guess were still the largest?

All that with only 4 times our population.

[ninenot]

You don't like the CIA, look at the MorganStanley report, in Google.

[Toddsterpatriot]

My original question:

Can you name some of those countries doing better than the U.S.?

So, China is doing better than the US?

[ninenot]

My original answer:

In terms of growth, emphatically YES.

Any other questions?

[Toddsterpatriot]

So, you'd prefer to be China or the US?

[Toddsterpatriot]

In terms of growth, emphatically YES.

What about in terms of per capita GDP?

[american spirit]

You can call it bashing all you want but all I've done is laid out facts regarding the destructive effects these idiotic free trade policies have had on this country. Huge increases of debt at all levels, millions of jobs as well as numerous industries lost, world'slargest debtor nation, etc. and yet you're so mesmerized by the "free trade at all costs" mantra that you're seemingly incapable of truly understanding the negative impact of free trade over the last 20 or so years....SNAP OUT OF IT MAN!

Also, in case you hadn't checked we're running trade deficits every year in the area of several hundred billion so obviously foreigners don't have as much appetite for our goods as you've been lead to believe and with the dissolution of so much of our mfg. capacity what are they buying anyway...farm goods, junk steel, some chips? That's the definition of a 'colony' pal, not a trading partner.

As for the FTAA, if it goes through there will be demands for a new constitution to govern the new superstate, as in the case of the EU. Now, do you really want to live under some new constitution that most likely have a strong UN influence?....that should be a no-brainer, isn't it? You need to study this issue very closely if you cherish your God given constitutional rights....and if you don't know those rights soon you'll have none!

[Toddsterpatriot]

Huge increases of debt at all levels, millions of jobs as well as numerous industries lost, world'slargest debtor nation, etc.

So, all this debt is due to free trade? Can you cite your source for that? Millions of jobs lost? What was US employment before all this "idiotic free trade" and what is US employment now?

Also, in case you hadn't checked we're running trade deficits every year in the area of several hundred billion so obviously foreigners don't have as much appetite for our goods as you've been lead to believe

I never said anything one way or the other about foreigners appetite for our goods.And what good are the dollars these evil foreigners are getting?

As for the FTAA, if it goes through there will be demands for a new constitution to govern the new superstate, as in the case of the EU.

I don't believe this at all.

[american spirit]

Feel free to remain as ignorant and arrogant as you wish.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Employment is higher now than before these "idiotic free trade agreements".

Per capita GDP is higher.

Before you concern yourself with my ignorance you might want to get some facts yourself.

[ninenot]

Employment is higher now than before these "idiotic free trade agreements".

Yup. So now we can lose MORE money every year in trade deficits, and have a LARGER national debt when it's all over.

Thus, since WTO, we can lose money on every sale, but make it up in volume.

now THERE'S a plan!

[american spirit]

By gosh, I think you have it figured out....keep those fiat currency printing presses going....as long as there's plenty of paper and ink we have no worries....long live free trade!

[american spirit]

From 1983 to 2003 our population increased by almost 60 million people so even you should be able to figure out that with 60 million more consumers of course the GDP will higher. During that time frame federal debt has gone from approx. 1 trillion to over 7 trillion, not counting the over 40 trillion in unfunded liabilities....meaning the fedgov has used our tax $ to retrain workers whose factories have moved, provided assistance to numerous corporations to move their operations overseas through AID & OPIC (nice deal isn't it?), untold billions in housing, food, education, etc. services to all these illegals ...on and on. Plus, this doesn't count all the payroll tax revenues no longer coming from employers who hire illegals to help EVADE payroll taxes. Yeah buddy, sure sounds like a receipe for success doesn't it?

As far as the unemployment data...that's a joke, everybody with half a brain knows those figures are narrowly defined and do not account for those who've exhausted benefits and are not even looking for work any longer. I wouldn't hang my hat on that argument for very long if I were you but hey, keep on trying.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yup. So now we can lose MORE money every year in trade deficits, and have a LARGER national debt when it's all over.

Why do you harp on the trade deficit?

We get cars and stereos and stuff from WalMart. Those evil foreigners get green paper. If they buy stuff from us, that's good, right? If they buy nothing from us, we can print more paper.

Why can't you get that thru your thick skull?

As far as the LARGER national debt, I already told you how I felt about govt spending.

[Toddsterpatriot]

From 1983 to 2003 our population increased by almost 60 million people so even you should be able to figure out that with 60 million more consumers of course the GDP will higher.

So, the population went from 240 million to 300 million but GDP went from $5.4 trillion to $10.4 trillion.

http://www.bea.gov/bea/dn/gdplev.xls

As far as the unemployment data...that's a joke

I said employment was higher. I didn't say anything about unemployment.

[Toddsterpatriot]

meaning the fedgov has used our tax $ to retrain workers whose factories have moved, provided assistance to numerous corporations to move their operations overseas through AID & OPIC (nice deal isn't it?), untold billions in housing, food, education, etc. services to all these illegals ...on and on. Plus, this doesn't count all the payroll tax revenues no longer coming from employers who hire illegals to help EVADE payroll taxes.

How many trillions has the govt spent on these programs (AID, OPIC, ect)? Source please.

I agree we need to reduce/eliminate illegal immigration.